[00:00:01]
WE'RE GOING TO CALL IN SESSION OUR NOVEMBER 4TH SIGNBOARD MEETING.
[1. Call to Order]
NO CHAIRMAN COMMENTS.JUST CONSIDERATION OF APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM OUR LAST SIGNBOARD MEETINGS.
[4. Consider: Approving the minutes from the October 21, 2021, Sign Board Meeting.]
EVERYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT BEFORE WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION.OK? MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM NUMBER FOUR ON OUR AGENDA.
WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND, SECOND? ALL RIGHT. LET'S VOTE, PLEASE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NOW WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM FIVE, WHICH IS AN ITEM THAT WE REVIEWED IN
[5. Consider: SV21-0022, Sign Variance for Florence Elementary School]
OUR WORK SESSION AND IN DETAIL SIBERIANS FOR FLORENCE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.I THINK SINCE WE WENT THROUGH THE PRESENTATION ALREADY.
DENNIS, MAYBE IF HE CAN JUST FLIP TO MAYBE THE KEY SLIDE HERE AND ANY QUICK COMMENTS YOU MIGHT HAVE ON THIS ONE.
CERTAINLY JUST RECAPPING WHAT WE DISCUSSED IN WORK SESSION.
THIS IS A VARIANCE TO ALLOW A ROOF MOUNTED SIGN ON TOP OF THE CANOPY, ALSO TO OFFSET IT FROM THE MIDDLE SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT OF THAT PLANE FOR WHICH IT'S RESIDING ON.
AND THEN TO ALLOW THEM TO HAVE LESS THAN THE MINIMUM TWO INCH THICK CUT LADDER.
THESE WOULD BE ALUMINUM CUT LADDERS ROUGHLY ABOUT AN INCH AND A HALF THAT.
OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS ONE? THINK WE'RE GOOD? OK, THANK YOU.
DENNIS, DO WE HAVE AN APPLICANT ON THIS ITEM HERE? JUST HOLD ON REAL QUICK, I GUESS, COMMISSIONERS, DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS APPLICANT OR ARE WE? SO THIS IS AN UNLIGHTED SIGN, I'M ASSUMING.
WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD? IF YOU DON'T MIND, JUST COME UP AND MAYBE NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, REAL QUICK.
AND WE HAVE A SIGN CONNOISSEUR HERE.
I'M WITH [INAUDIBLE] ARCHITECTS IN FORT WORTH.
OK? AND WHY DO WE NEED THE SIGN TO BE SO LARGE? I MEAN, DON'T MOST PEOPLE IN SOUTHLAKE KNOW WHERE THE SCHOOL IS AND WHAT THE NAME OF IT IS? WELL, I GUESS I'M NOT SURE, BUT ARE YOU GETTING ARE YOU GETTING PAID BY THE SQUARE INCH? NO.
I MEAN, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, FLORENCE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL HAS A LOT OF LETTERS, SO IT ENDS UP BEING BIG, BUT WE DO WANT TO HAVE IT ON THE TOP OF THE CANOPY THERE.
BUT IS IT? IS IT LIT? IT'S NOT LIT. NO, IT IS NOT EVEN AT NIGHT.
THERE'S NO INDIRECT LIGHTING OR ANYTHING.
THAT'S ALL I GOT. DENNIS DO YOU MIND FLIPPING TO, I GUESS, THE ONE THAT SHOWS KIND OF THE RENDERING OF THE SCHOOL.
UH, YEAH. I MEAN, I THOUGHT THAT LOOKED, I WAS KIND OF WONDERING WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
I THOUGHT THAT LOOKED PRETTY SHARP TO ME.
BUT BUT I KNOW THAT THE SIGNS ARE A LITTLE SUBJECTIVE.
SO ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT FROM COMMISSIONERS? GOOD. OK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.
THANK YOU. ANY OTHER DEBATE ON THIS ONE BEFORE WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION THAT WE SEE IF IT GETS UNANIMOUS SUPPORT OR NOT? YOU KNOW, THE ONLY COMMENT I'D MAKE AND I GUESS I'M LOOKING AT THIS, THE RENDERING, I REALLY NEVER NOTICED IT UNTIL JUST NOW.
I THINK THE LETTERING GETS LOST WITH THE DESIGN OF THE SCHOOL.
I'M SURPRISED YOU DON'T PUT IT ON THE THE FACE RIGHT OVER THE ENTRANCE TO THE SCHOOL WHERE IT'S MORE VISIBLE. TO ME, IT GETS LOST EITHER IN THE SKY OR IN THE BACKGROUND.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE.
I THINK PLACEMENT, MAYBE IF IT WAS BIGGER, MAYBE THAT WOULD.
WELL, NO, I'M NOT GOING WITH BIGGER.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING SORRY, SORRY.
I THINK WE NEED TO PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT THAT ALL OF OUR SCHOOLS BE RENAMED SHORTER NAMES ARE ABBREVIATIONS.
ELEMENTARY IS JUST A LONG WORD, YOU KNOW? OK. YEAH.
I GUESS IF WE WANT TO JUST MAKE A NOTE THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT FEELS COMFORTABLE IN TERMS OF THE VISIBILITY OF WHERE IT'S BEING PLACED, I KNOW THAT IS ONE OF THE VARIANCE CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE WITHIN HERE IN TERMS OF JUST THE SPECIFIC SIGN LOCATION.
I GUESS I'M FINE WITH IT IF THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE PUTTING IT IN THE BEST SPOT.
WELL, I MEAN, I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE THOUGHT BEHIND IT WAS IT'S DIRECTLY OVER THE ENTRYWAY. I MEAN, YEAH, I WASN'T SURE HOW MUCH OF THIS, JUST THE RENDERING.
YEAH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS. ALL RIGHT.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE.
ITEM NUMBER FIVE ON THE AGENDA.
SUBJECT TO OUR STAFF REPORT DATED NOVEMBER 3RD 2021, REVISED AND NOTING THE COMMISSION'S CONCERN THAT MAYBE THE SIGN SHOULD BE PLACED ELSEWHERE, BUT ALSO NOTING THE COMMISSION'S
[00:05:08]
RECOGNITION OF THE FACT THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT PLACED A SIGN AND SEEMS TO LIKE WHERE IT'S BEEN PLACED. I THINK THAT'S A FAIR SUMMARY.WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND, SECOND.
ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO AND VOTE, PLEASE.
WELL, OK, WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYBODY.
NOW WE'LL MOVE TO THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA THIS EVENING.
[6. Consider: SV21-0024, Sign Variance for Mesero]
CONSIDERATION OF SIGN VARIANCE OVER AT OUR CENTRAL MARKET SHOPPING CENTER.THIS IS A VARIANCE FOR THE MESERO RESTAURANT AT 1445 EAST SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD.
IT'S LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF SHOPS OF SOUTHLAKE.
THE REQUEST BEFORE YOU IS TO ALLOW A LARGER THAN PERMITTED LETTER.
LETTER SIZE, AS WELL AS A A TAGLINE THAT IS PLACED ON A BOX OR BACKER TYPE STRUCTURE.
ADDITIONALLY, THE APPLICANT HAS ASKED TO PERMIT THE ORANGE LED LIGHTING FOR THE ACRYLIC FACE OF THE MAIN SIGN STRUCTURE ITSELF IS WHERE, AS WELL AS THE HALO EFFECT THAT WOULD WOULD OCCUR DURING THAT TIME, ONLY THE SITE THE SIGN WOULD REMAIN WHITE AND ITS FACIAL APPEARANCE DURING DAYTIME HOURS.
THERE'S THREE SIGNS PROPOSED ON THE BUILDING ONE ON THE NORTH, ONE ON THE SOUTH AND ONE ON THE WEST.
SLIDE BEFORE YOU IS THE NORTH SIGN, WHICH HAS A MAXIMUM SIGN HEIGHT OF JUST UNDER SIXTY FIVE INCHES.
THE PRIMARY CURSIVE LETTERS ARE JUST OVER JUST ABOUT THIRTY SIX INCHES.
THIS IS THE SOUTH ELEVATION SIGN.
THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THE DAM ON THIS IS JUST OVER FIFTY FIVE INCHES.
THE PRIMARY CURSIVE LETTERS ON THIS JUST OVER THIRTY INCHES.
AND THIS IS THE PROPOSED WEST ELEVATION SIGN, THE NAME ON THIS SIGN IS APPROXIMATELY SEVENTY SEVEN INCHES, AND THE CURSIVE LETTERS ON THE REMAINING REMAINING PART OF THE SIGN ARE JUST ABOUT FORTY THREE INCHES.
THIS IS AN ELEVATION OF THE WEST SIGN WITH A COMPARISON OF A CONFORMING SIGN.
AND SOUTH ELEVATION ALSO WITH COMPARISON OF A CONFORMING SIGN ONCE AGAIN FOCUSING ON THE LETTER SIZE AS FAR AS CONFORMANCE DID NOT MENTION THAT.
THIS IS A EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE OF SIGN THAT'S BEING CONSTRUCTED, THIS IS A PROFILE OF THE MOXIE SIGN.
IT'S A CHANNEL CUT LETTER WITH A ACRYLIC FACE PANEL THAT'S INTERNALLY LED, AS WELL AS CREATES A HALO EFFECT AROUND THE DESIGN ITSELF.
AND ONCE AGAIN, THE PLANS ARE IN YOUR PACKET REFLECT A WHITE LED, THE APPLICANT HAS ASKED TO CHANGE THAT TO ORANGE LED, WHICH IS WHAT THEIR TYPICAL BRANDING IS FOR MAJORITY OF THE RESTAURANTS.
ONCE AGAIN, THE SIGN WOULD APPEAR WHITE DURING DAYTIME HOURS AND WOULD APPEAR ORANGE ON THE LETTER FACE WITH THE HALO EFFECT AROUND THE SIGN.
THERE'S SOME VIEWS OF THE BUILDING.
AND SOME OF THE SIGNS WITHIN THE CENTRAL MARKET OR SHOPS SOUTHLAKE, INCLUDING CENTRAL
[00:10:06]
MARKET.AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
I KNOW I'VE SEEN IT IN AN EMAIL FROM THE CITY OR THE PAPER OR SOMETHING.
WHAT RESTAURANT IS GOING IN NEXT DOOR WHERE [INAUDIBLE] WAS? MAYBE A QUESTION FOR MR. PALMER. MAYBE WE'LL DRILL MR. PALMER ON THE LEASING UPDATE.
OK. WELL, I WAS ASKING NOT ONLY FOR A LEASING UPDATE, BUT ALSO I WAS JUST CONFIRMING THAT WE HAD NOT SEEN THAT SAME PACKAGE YET.
CORRECT. AND I DON'T BELIEVE WE WE HAVE AS OF YET EITHER.
THANK YOU. I CANNOT REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE RESTAURANT, BUT I'M SURE MR. PALMER CAN REMIND ME OF THAT.
SO DENNIS, BASICALLY, WE HAVE THREE SIGNS AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY'RE PERMITTED TO HAVE THREE SIGNS, ONE ON EACH SIDE THAT WILL DELIBERATE IN TERMS OF THE SIZE CABINET BOX REQUEST OR CABINET SIGN.
AND AND THE LIGHTING COLOR SET ON KIND OF EACH ONE.
SO. OKAY. WELL FRAMED [INAUDIBLE].
WELL, HELPFUL INFO FROM STAFF.
SO ANY ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF WHILE WE HAVE DENNIS UP HERE.
THEN WE'LL GO AND CALL THE APPLICANT UP NOW.
AND JUST KIND OF HEAR ANY QUICK COMMENTS FROM THEM IN TERMS OF JUST, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE SPECIFIC DESIRES BEHIND THE REQUEST.
AND AFTER THAT, IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS THERE, WE CAN JUST KIND OF DELIBERATE AND CALL THEM BACK UP IF NEEDED.
SO NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, AS ALWAYS, I THINK YOU KNOW THE ROUTINE.
MAYBE I'LL JUST CLEAR UP THE ONE QUESTION AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
SO DAVID PALMER, 3102 MAPLE, I'M THE LANDLORD.
[INAUDIBLE] BIG TAVERN, WHICH IS FOR HAILSTONE HOUSTON VETERANS ONE THE PACIFIC TABLE.
BUT ON THAT, AND NO, THEY'RE ABOUT TO FILE THE BUILDING PLANS AND WE'LL COME FORWARD WITH THEIR SIGNAGE PACKAGE. I'M NOT SURE THAT THEY'LL NEED A VARIANCE YET, BUT HAVEN'T BEEN SEEN, BUT I EXPECT THEM TO OPEN PROBABLY MARCH 1ST OR MAYBE EARLIER AND MR. DYER PROMISES TO BE OPEN THIS YEAR, I THINK.
NO PRESSURE. NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, AFTER THAT COMMITMENT ON THE RECORD HERE.
TREY DYER 3204 MILTON AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
AND I WOULD COMMIT TO THAT IF EQUIPMENT WAS COMMITTING TO ME THAT IT BE IN UNDERSTAND SUPPLY CHAIN. WE WILL DO OUR BEST.
THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY IS WE'RE WE'RE WE'RE FULL SPEED AHEAD GETTING THIS THING OPEN AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.
OK, MAYBE JUST ANY JUST QUICK COMMENTS IN TERMS OF, I THINK, YOU KNOW, RELATIVE TO WHAT I LAID OUT THAT WE HAVE TO DELIBERATE ON RELATIVE TO THE REQUEST.
I MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU HAVE THEM ON ALL THREE SIDES.
THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE, BUT IT'S MORE JUST THE DESIRE FOR THE SIGN SIZE, THE DESIRE FOR THOSE KIND OF CABINET BOX LOGOS AND THEN THE BACK LIGHTING AT NIGHT.
SO LET ME ADDRESS THEM IN DIFFERENT ORDERS.
SO THE CABINET BOX LOGOS ARE ACTUALLY THEY'RE 3D.
I MEAN, THEY'RE IT'S IT'S IT'S DESIGN MORE SO THAT IT'S CAN BE A REAL FUNCTIONAL SIGN AS TO WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, NOT JUST A FLAT SIGN, IT KIND OF GIVES YOU SOMETHING TO LOOK AT. THE COLOR ITSELF IS A COLOR THAT WE'VE THAT IS OUR SIGNATURE BRAND.
I DID NOT EVERYONE THINKS IT'S FOR UT.
ORANGE IS REALLY IF YOU LOOK IT UP ON THE COLOR SCALE ON ORANGE ACTUALLY IS THE COLOR OF HUNGER TRUTHFULLY AND SUBLIMINALLY, ACTUALLY.
BUT IT FITS AND IT GIVES EVERYTHING KIND OF IT BRINGS IT ALL TOGETHER.
SO IT'S OUR BRAND AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE BEEN WITH SINCE 2011, WHEN WE STARTED THE BRAND. THE THE ISSUE WITH THE SIZE OF THE LETTERS IS WHEN EVERYTHING IS PROPORTIONAL TO WHAT THE CODE REQUIRES ON THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING ON THESE FACES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. IT'S NOT IT'S ALMOST NOT WORTH HAVING A SIGN AT THAT POINT, AND WE ARE DOWN IN WHAT WHAT I WOULD CALL AN EIGHTEEN FOOT DITCH BECAUSE THE SOUTHLAKE GOES UP AND THE ROAD, THE ENTRANCE TO THE SHOPPING CENTER GOES DOWN.
SO WE NEED SOME SORT OF SIGNAGE AS PEOPLE KNOW WHERE WE ARE.
OTHERWISE THEY GET INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER OR THEY PASS US AND THEY MAKE THE U-TURN AND THEY JUST NEVER COME BACK.
SO AT LEAST BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY IN SOME WAY.
[00:15:02]
AND IT'S A SUBTLE ORANGE.IT'S NOT. IT'S NOT IN YOUR FACE.
IT'S IT'S JUST KIND OF A A BACKLIT GLOW AND JUST A GLOW OF THE LETTERS.
AND AGAIN, IT'S ONLY AT NIGHT.
DURING THE DAY, IT'S ALL WHITE AND.
AND I GUESS IN TERMS OF THE SIGN SIZE, I GUESS YOUR DESIRE IS ALL THREE OF THEM TO BE THAT SIZE. I MEAN, WOULD THERE BE, YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS ONE OF THEM THAT YOU COULD PICK MAYBE THE WEST ONE OR SOMETHING? THAT WOULDN'T BE. MAYBE NOT DOWN TO ORDINANCE, BUT NOT QUITE AS BIG OR I THINK WE'VE KIND OF VARIED THEM A LITTLE BIT BASED ON THEIR DISTANCE FROM SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD.
I BELIEVE THE THE NORTHERN EXPOSURE IS SLIGHTLY SMALLER THAN THE OTHER TWO.
THE WESTERN EXPOSURE IS LARGER JUST BECAUSE IT'S A IT'S CENTERED ON A VERY LONG BUILDING.
AND THEN THE SOUTHERN EXPOSURE WHICH FACES INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER IS LARGER BECAUSE THAT'S ABOVE THE FRONT DOOR.
AND AS YOU ALL HIGHLIGHTED IN THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, OUR LEGACY WEST SIGN IS NOT ABOVE OUR FRONT DOOR. SO HALF THE TIME PEOPLE WALK INTO OUR BUILDING THINKING IT'S NORTH ITALIA, WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO US BECAUSE THE SIGN IS NOT ABOVE OUR FRONT DOOR, IT'S ABOVE WHAT IS OUR ENCLOSED PATIO THERE.
SO HIGHLIGHTING THE FRONT DOOR AND WHERE WE ARE BEACONS THE WRONG TERM, BUT AT LEAST GIVES YOU A DIRECTION OF WHERE YOU NEED TO GO.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT HERE? WELL, I'M KIND OF CONCERNED ABOUT OUR CONFUSED ABOUT WHY IF IT'S OK TO BE WHITE DURING THE DAY WHEN IT'S GOING TO BE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR BUSINESS, WHY IT NEEDS TO BE ORANGE AT NIGHT WHEN YOU'RE PROBABLY CLOSING AT 8 OR 9 O'CLOCK AND IT'S LIKE, THAT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. SO I DON'T HAVE ONE RESTAURANT THAT CLOSES 8 O'CLOCK, OK 9 THEN.
I DON'T HAVE ONE THAT CLOSES AT 9.
OK, FINE. BUT I DON'T KNOW YOUR SCHEDULE, BUT TO HAVE A SIGN THAT'S ONE COLOR IN THE DAY AND YOU'RE OK WITH THAT AND THEN BUT YOU WANT IT TO CHANGE COLORS AT NIGHT.
I'M NOT. I'M JUST NOT FOLLOWING THAT.
OH, IT'S ACTUALLY MORE OF A IT'S MORE ABOUT LIGHT.
I MEAN, DURING THE DAY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO THE SIGN IS NOT GOING TO BE LIT, SO IT'S GOING TO BE A WHITE ACRYLIC.
OK, BUT IF YOU CAN SEE IF I CAN SEE IT DRIVING DOWN SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD AND IT'S WHITE, WHY CANT I NOT SEE IT AT NIGHT IF IT'S LIT UP WHITE? I WOULD DISAGREE THAT YOU COULD ACTUALLY SEE IT DRIVING DOWN SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD.
WELL, THEN YOUR ARGUMENT ABOUT MAKING THE SIGN BIGGER, IT GOES BACK TO WHERE YOU DON'T NEED A SIGN THAT THAT LARGE IF YOU'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT OBSERVABILITY OF IT.
I MEAN, IT WOULD SEEM LIKE TO ME, THAT'S WHAT THE SIGNAGE IS ALL ABOUT.
SO NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT YOU DON'T, IT'S OK IN THE DAY, BUT AT NIGHT IT NEEDS TO BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I'M JUST NOT FOLLOWING THE LOGIC.
IT'S A COMMISSIONER SPRINGER JUST TO BE CLEAR, RED BRICK BACKGROUND, EXCUSE ME, THE RED BRICK BACKGROUND DURING THE DAY, THE ORANGE DOESN'T.
I MEAN, OKAY, JUST TO BE CLEAR, I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME CONFUSION.
I DON'T THINK THE LETTERS TURN ORANGE.
IT'S A HALO AROUND THE WHITE LETTERS.
I DON'T THINK SO. IT'S A TRANSLUCENT WHITE, IS WHAT HE'S SAYING.
THE LETTERS TURN ORANGE AT NIGHT BECAUSE THE LEDS AREN'T ON DURING THE DAY.
I MEAN, THERE'S I SEE YOU BECAUSE I WAS LOOKING AT SOME PICTURES ONLINE AND IT LOOKED LIKE THEY STAY WHITE.
BUT THE BACK OF THEM OR THE HALO AROUND IT TURNS ORANGE AT NIGHT.
GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. SO ON THE WEST SIDE, SIGN HERE THAT YOU'RE SHOWING BETWEEN THE COLUMNS THAT ARE ON THE BUILDING, I'M SURE THEY'RE FAUX COLUMNS OR WHATEVER.
HOW IS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT STANDING OFF ENOUGH TO OFFSET THE DEPTH OF THE COLUMN, THE ONE THAT'S UP RIGHT NOW? I SEE THAT. YES, SIR.
OK. ALL RIGHT, THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, I GUESS I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS, MAYBE FROM YOUR STANDPOINT AND I UNDERSTAND THE SCALABILITY ISSUE WITH THE NAME IN SMALLER LETTERS.
WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT ON THE NORTH SIDE IS BALANCE WITH THE OTHER ESTABLISHMENTS THAT ARE ALONG SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD.
SO I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT ON THE WEST SIDE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THE WEST SIDE, SIZE WISE, WOULDN'T MIRROR WHAT YOU HAVE ON THE NORTH.
NOW, I KNOW YOU SAID IT'S BECAUSE THE FURTHER YOU GET FROM SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD, THE LARGER YOU WANT IT TO BE.
BUT THAT'S THAT TO ME IS JUST OVERBEARING ON THE WEST SIDE.
FIFTY FIVE VERSUS SEVENTY SEVEN INCHES OR WHATEVER ULTIMATELY IS DECIDED.
YOU'RE STILL GOING TO SEE IT FROM SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD.
I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE IDENTITY ISSUE THAT YOU THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU CALL THE 18 FOOT DITCH OR THAT YOU'RE SWALE THAT YOU'RE IN.
[00:20:03]
GIVEN THE REPUTATION THAT MESERO HAS AS A RESTAURANT, SO THAT'S A COUPLE OF COMMENTS, NORTH SIDE SCALABILITY TO THE OTHER SIDE'S WEST SIDE, MAYBE BEING REDUCED A LITTLE BIT AS FAR AS THE LIGHTING.ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE ALWAYS STRUGGLED WITH SITTING IN THIS CHAIR IS I THINK WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND RECOGNIZE THAT THE ESTABLISHMENTS THAT COME INTO SOUTHLAKE HAVE A BRAND, AND I THINK TO TRY AND FORCE A CHANGE IN THAT BRAND PROBABLY ISN'T FAIR TO THE ESTABLISHMENT, JUST FROM MY STANDPOINT.
SO WHILE I'M NOT, IT SEEMS TO ME THERE OUGHT TO BE CONSISTENCY BETWEEN DAY AND NIGHT.
BUT AS MR. PALMER SAID, YOU HAVE THE ISSUE OF RED BRICK, WHERE THE WHITE'S GOING TO SHOW UP JUST FINE DURING THE DAY.
I WOULD LIKE THE SCALABILITY ISSUE, THOUGH, TO WHERE MAYBE THE NORTH AND THE WEST ARE BALANCED AND MAYBE THE NORTH NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE OTHER SIGNS THAT ARE ALONG THAT THAT FACE SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD JUST MORE MORE MORE COMMENTS THAN QUESTIONS FOR YOU. I AGREE.
BUT THEN SO THEN AND NOT TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE.
SO THEN HOW DOES TRADER JOE'S HAVE EIGHT FOOT LETTERS ON DIRECTLY ON SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD, WHICH IS FULLY VISIBLE? YEAH, I SEE. AND THAT THAT GETS BACK TO THE PRECEDENT ARGUMENT THAT THAT WE ALWAYS HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT UP HERE BECAUSE THE SECOND WE MAKE ONE PRECEDENT, WE HAVE SOMEBODY LIKE YOU COME IN AND MAKE SIT AND STAND AND MAKE THAT COMMENT.
SO THE SECOND WE TURN YOUR SIGN ORANGE, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN? WE'RE GOING TO GET A PARADE OF PEOPLE WHO WANT ORANGE.
IN FAIRNESS, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO TO.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT WAS JUST IN RESPONSE TO WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE OTHER PEOPLE ON SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD. BUT I WOULD I WOULD CHALLENGE YOU THAT I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE PEOPLE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD.
I'M LOOKING AT THE PEOPLE WHO SHARE A COMMON ELEVATION ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THAT OF THE OF THE SHOPPING CENTER.
TO ME, TRADER VIC'S IS OUT OF THE QUESTION, NOT EVEN A CONSIDERATION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. WHAT I THINK IS A CONSIDERATION OF PEOPLE LIKE SLEEP NUMBER, HOLLYWOOD FEED THE SLIDE THAT STAFF PUT UP THERE THAT SHOWED THOSE WHO HAVE SIGNS FACING SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
THAT'S MY REFERENCE POINT, NOT WHAT'S ACROSS THE STREET.
UNDERSTOOD. ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING, CAN YOU SEE IT FROM SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD? I MEAN, I GUESS MY CONCERN IS THAT IF IT'S ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING, IT'S VIEWED BY THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE PATIO OF THE FUTURE RESTAURANT WHERE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY SIGNS, DENNIS? THAT KIND OF SLIDES THAT SHOW A LITTLE OF THAT? OK. THANK YOU.
GOOD. GO AHEAD. I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S KIND OF LIKE TUCKED AWAY BEHIND THE TREES AND THE AND THE RESTAURANT TO THE WEST.
MR. DYER DOESN'T HAVE THE HISTORICAL.
THE PREVIOUS TWO RESTAURANTS THAT WERE HERE, THE FIRST ONE IS STIR CRAZY THE SECOND ONE IS CALLED WANGS GOT A VARIANCE TO MOVE THEIR WEST SIDE SIGN TO THE NORTHERN THIRD OF THAT THREE PART ELEVATION AND AND MR. DYERS HAS CHOSEN TO SAY, LET'S PUT IT IN THE CENTER AS THE ORDINANCE REQUIRES.
BUT AS A RESULT OF THE FOCUS IS THE WHOLE WIDTH OF THAT ELEVATION.
AND SO THAT WAS A KIND OF KIND OF THE DELTA AND THE THINKING IN TERMS OF THAT.
IT'S YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT GOING EAST ON SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD THAT THE SIGN IS MOST VISIBLE IF IT WERE IN THE NORTHERN THIRD OF THAT THREE PART ELEVATION.
AND THAT'S WHAT STIR CRAZY AND HOWARD WANGS CHOSE TO DO.
AND THEY GOT VARIANCES FOR THAT BECAUSE IT'S IT'S NOT IN THE CENTER.
OK. I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT YOU SEE IT ON THE WEST SIDE OTHER THAN IF YOU'RE AT THE NEIGHBORING RESTAURANT.
OK. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? OK. I THINK WE'RE GOOD FOR NOW.
IF WE NEED YOU, WE'LL CALL YOU BACK UP.
WE'RE GOING TO DELIBERATE ON IT.
THANK YOU. WE'LL BE BACK. THANK YOU.
SO I MEAN, I THINK WE'VE GOT THREE SIGNS HERE.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I GUESS IT SOUNDS LIKE I MEAN, WE HAVE AN APPLICANT REQUESTING TO PUT IT IN THE MIDDLE ON THAT WESTERN SIDE.
SO I THINK WE'LL JUST VIEW IT THAT WAY FOR NOW.
I MEAN, I GUESS AGAIN, JUST KIND OF THE BIGGER PICTURE CONSIDERATION HERE IS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A RESTAURANT SPACE THAT'S HAD OCCUPANCY.
TRYING TO THINK OF THE RIGHT WAY TO PUT IT, NOT STABLE OCCUPANCY.
I GUESS WE'LL SAY IT HAS SOME LEVEL OF VISIBILITY ISSUES.
DEBATABLE HOW MUCH, BUT HAS SOME.
AND WE HAVE AN OPERATOR THAT HAS A GREAT REPUTATION.
SO I GUESS FOR ME, I'M TRYING TO OVERLAY ALL THAT.
AND THEN RELATIVE TO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, JUST BEING CAREFUL ON PRECEDENT SO THAT WE DON'T GET A PARADE OF, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL APPLICANTS UP HERE AS WELL.
SO I'M TRYING TO BE GLASS HALF FULL TOWARDS THIS.
[00:25:01]
SO MAYBE WE JUST TAKE IT ONE AT A TIME IN TERMS OF THE SIZE.ANY QUESTIONS COMMENTS WHILE WE JUST TRY TO REACH CONSENSUS ON EACH OF THESE AS MUCH AS WE CAN? ANYTHING ON THE SIZE FOR THE NORTH, SOUTH AND WEST SIGNS? WELL, I EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE WEST, I THINK, AND AGAIN, I DON'T I GUESS I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT IT AS I DROVE BY TODAY, PERHAPS, BUT I DON'T HAVE A SENSE WHETHER THAT M IS GOING TO DOMINATE THAT WHOLE FRONT OF THAT SHOPPING CENTER AS YOU DRIVE DOWN SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD. IF IT DOES, I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT UNDERSTANDING AGAIN, THE SCALE BETWEEN THE CURSIVE LETTERS AND THE LARGE M.
BUT THE WEST SIGN, TO ME, NOTWITHSTANDING WHAT I THINK IS PERHAPS A VISIBILITY ISSUE AS WELL. I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE ANY LARGER THAN THAT SIGN THAT'S ON THE NORTH.
IF, WHATEVER, WE COME TO A CONCLUSION THERE, BUT THAT THAT WEST SIGN TO ME IS JUST TOO BIG AT THE PROPOSED SIZE.
AND OVER THE FRONT DOOR, I'M FINE WITH THAT, CONSISTENT WITH THE NORTH NORTH.
AND THEN DENNIS, I GUESS, DID YOU? I GUESS THE SIGNAGE THAT'S ALREADY LONG SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD, LIKE YOU SAID, THE HOLLYWOOD FEED SIGNS. I MEAN, DO WE HAVE A SLIDE ON ANY OF THAT OR DO WE? YEAH, I JUST I WANTED TO TRY TO MAKE SURE WE'RE BEING SOMEWHAT CONSISTENT HERE WITH WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WITH OTHER APPLICANTS, SOME PHOTOS OF THEM, BUT THEIR INTERNAL DRIVE AND NOT I DON'T THINK I HAD ONE ON THE SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD SIZED SIDE, BUT I THINK THE MAYBE I JUST MAKE HOLLYWOOD FEED ON THE NORTH SIDE IS VERY CLOSE TO THAT SIZE.
AND ANY IDEA I'M TRYING TO EYEBALL THAT, I MEAN, IS THAT TWO OR THREE FEET HIGH OR? MAYBE MR. PALMER MIGHT ACTUALLY KNOW, BUT I THINK THAT THAT ONE MET THE 18 INCH SIGN GUIDELINES OR WAS VERY, VERY CLOSE.
THE PRIMARY REASON FOR THAT ONE COMING IN FOR THE VARIANCE WAS THE IT WAS THE EXISTING SIGN, RIGHT? RELOCATED SON FROM A PREVIOUS LOCATION, AND THEY WERE INTERNALLY LIGHTING THAT WITH THE NON NEUTRAL COLORED SIGN FACE.
OK, WELL, CAN'T WE JUST DO WHAT WE'VE DONE BEFORE, WHICH IS SAY SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF THAT? WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE THIS.
BUT IF THE APPLICANT IS WILLING TO BRING A COUPLE OF ALTERNATIVES WITH REGARD TO THE NORTH AND WEST TO HAVE A MORE BALANCED ON SIZE, MAYBE ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE ON THE COLOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, COUNCIL IS GOING TO HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION WE ARE.
AND I AGREE ON THE PRECEDENT ISSUE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, THERE'S PRECEDENT, BUT THERE'S NOT BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE AN UGLY SIGN, YOU'VE GOT AN UGLY SIGN AND WE'VE DEALT WITH QUITE A FEW OF THOSE RECENTLY.
I WON'T MENTION THE NAMES, BUT THEY'VE JUST BEEN GOD AWFUL, UGLY AND THEY WERE THE SAME SIZE. BUT WE SAID NO.
SO TO ME, IT'S KIND OF A CASE BY CASE BASIS IN TERMS OF COLOR AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND THE REALITY IS COUNCIL'S GOING TO GET THE SAME EXACT PRESENTATION, BUT MAYBE THE APPLICANT, IF THEY WERE WILLING, YOU KNOW, TO CHANGE SIZES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I MEAN, I'M GOOD WITH IT, AS IS, BUT I APPRECIATE THE OTHER COMMENTS.
WELL, MAYBE SOME OF THAT WAS TRYING TO MARRY INTO THAT IS IF, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE WESTERN SIGN, IF THERE WAS A THOUGHT ABOUT TRYING TO REDUCE THE SIZE OF THAT, MAYBE THERE'S ADDED FLEXIBILITY IN TERMS OF SAYING, WELL, MAYBE IF IT'S SMALLER, YOU CAN PUT IT BACK IN THE SAME LOCATION AT THE OTHER ONE WAS WITH MORE VISIBILITY ALONG SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD.
I MEAN, IF THE APPLICANT DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT, THAT'S FINE.
BUT MAYBE THERE'S SOME KIND OF FLEXIBILITY THERE.
JUST RELATIVELY AGAIN, THE WHOLE GOAL HERE IS TO GET SOME GOOD VISIBILITY SO THE SPACE CAN STAY OCCUPIED.
AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE PEOPLE KNOW WHERE IT IS AND GET REMINDED OF IT? YEAH, I JUST THINK THE WEST SIGN, IT FEELS LIKE IT'S IT'S INEFFECTIVE IN ITS LOCATION AS IT IS NOW. AND SO IF IT'S MOVED UP A LITTLE BIT, THAT MIGHT BE A CONSIDERATION, MAYBE A LITTLE SMALLER. I WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THE COLOR AND I GUESS MY EYES ARE KIND OF PLAYING TRICKS ON ME. I DO SEE IS KIND OF A FAINT ORANGE, AND I'M SENSITIVE TO THE PRECEDENT SETTING. BUT I ALSO I ALSO AGREE WITH THE VICE CHAIRMAN'S COMMENTS ABOUT HOW NOT ALL SIGNS ARE THE SAME AND PRECEDENTS ARE DIFFERENT PRECEDENTS, RIGHT? SO I THINK IT ADDS A LITTLE ACTIVITY AND AND SORT OF FOCUS AND EXCITEMENT TO IT, PROBABLY IN THE EVENING. AND YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT PLACES LIKE LEGACY WEST AND IT'S GOT A LOT MORE
[00:30:04]
ACTIVITY, SO IT COULD BE GOOD.BUT ANYWAY, PROBABLY SHOW COUNCIL WHAT THOSE LOOK LIKE AT NIGHTTIME, RIGHT? WE HAVE NO VISIBILITY OTHER THAN ME.
YEAH, I WAS GOING TO SAY MAYBE ON THE ON THE SIGN SIZE JUST AROUND THAT OUT.
MAYBE IT'S SHOW AN ALTERNATIVE ON THE WESTERN SIDE THAT MAYBE IS THE SAME SIZE AS THE SOUTHERN ONE AT FIFTY FIVE INCHES.
AND MAYBE EVEN THE APPLICANT CAN HAVE THE WILLINGNESS TO IF THEY WANT TO HAVE COUNCIL, CONSIDER MOVING IT OVER CLOSER TO SOUTHLAKE BOULEVARD AND CONSIDER THAT AS WELL IF IT'S SMALLER BUT MOVED OVER.
I MEAN, BACK TO THE VICE CHAIRMAN'S POINTS, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL WILL GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS AS WELL. AND I THINK OUR GOAL IS TO REFINE THIS, GIVE THEM SOME OPTIONS SO THAT THEY CAN HOPEFULLY THAT EVENING PICK A ROUTE AND GO VERSUS HAVE TO COME BACK.
SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA ON THE SIGN SIZE ON THE LET'S DO LIGHTING NEXT REAL QUICK. I GUESS JUST QUICK THOUGHTS ON THAT.
I KNOW COMMISSIONER REYNOLDS KIND OF VOICED HIS THOUGHTS.
AGAIN, I JUST LOOKED AT IT ON ONLINE.
IT'S VERY FAINT, BUT IT ADDS A COOL FACTOR TO IT.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS, COMMENTS? AND I GUESS I MEAN, I GUESS TECHNICALLY DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ALL THREE OF THEM.
I'M I'M IN FAVOR OF IT, BUT I DO THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO BRING IMAGES FROM THE OTHER LOCATIONS JUST SO THERE'S NO MISUNDERSTANDING OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
YEAH, THE ONLY COMMENT I'D MAKE IS COMMENT.
I MADE MR. DYER, WHICH IS THIS IS PART OF THEIR BRAND.
AND I THINK PART OF THE BRAND IS THE IDENTITY THAT YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT TODAY GO TO LEGACY WEST TO GO TO MESERO'S.
COME HERE AND SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, I RECOGNIZE WHAT I SEE THERE, AND I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT THEY.
WELL, I'M STILL CONCERNED ABOUT THIS WEST SIDE ONE BEING PROTRUDING OUT OF THE BUILDING ENOUGH TO BE ON TOP OF THESE COLUMNS HERE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST IT'S GOING TO BE A MINIMUM OF A FOOT OFF THE BUILDING.
IT'S GOING TO BE IT JUST IT'S I STILL THINK IF THEY BRING A VERSION, IT'S THE LITTLE FIVE INCH VERSION THAT'LL FIT WITH INSIDE.
YEAH, THAT THAT ONE WILL PROBABLY FIT FIT INSIDE THE COLUMN.
YEAH, OK. AND IT MAY BE, I THINK, ON THE LIGHTING.
I THINK THE VICE CHAIRMAN MAKES A GOOD POINT.
MAYBE WHAT WE CAN DO IS ASSUMING IT'S APPROVED, I GUESS, BRING A RENDERING OF WHAT EXACTLY THE LIGHTING WILL LOOK LIKE AND THEN COUNCIL CAN DEBATE ON IF THEY WANT IT OR NOT, AND IF SO, ON WHICH SIGNS.
AND THEN THE LAST ITEM IS THE CABINET SIGN ON ALL THREE OF THESE.
ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT? I THINK IT LOOKS PRETTY COOL.
ANY OTHER? IT DOESN'T MEAN THE CODE, AND WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET RID OF THESE, AND I DON'T SEE WHY WE'RE GOING TO BRING ANOTHER ONE IN.
I'D PROBABLY ACTUALLY LAND MORE ON THE NOT COOL JUST FROM THE PRECEDENT SETTING SIDE OF IT AND JUST SEE IF THERE'S A WAY THEY CAN DO IT.
THEY DO THE TAGLINE, BUT DO IT IN A MANNER THAT MEETS THE ORDINANCE SO WE DON'T START TO PROMULGATE MORE OF THEM.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? I GUESS I'LL TAKE NO COMMENTS AS SUPPORTIVE.
THE ONLY THING I THINK ABOUT AND I'M LOOKING AT THE WEST SIGN HERE, YOU KNOW, IN THE NORTH SIGN, YOU'VE GOT THE TAGLINE UNDERNEATH THE SIGN UNDERNEATH THE NAME OF THE RESTAURANT.
HERE PART OF WHAT MAKES THIS SO, SO WIDE IS THE FACT THAT ITS SIDE TO SIDE BECAUSE OF AN OVERSIZE SIGN ON THAT WEST SIDE.
SO MAYBE PART OF THE CONSIDERATION SHOULD BE IF YOU'RE DOING A A WEST SIDE SIGN, MAYBE MAKE THE DESIGN THE SAME AS IT IS ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH.
INSTEAD OF HAVING IT SPREAD EAST TO SPREAD SIDE, LATERALLY HAVE IT MORE VERTICAL THE WAY THE OTHER TWO ARE. MAYBE WE CAN JUST NOTE THAT AS A IS AN OPTION TO DEMONSTRATE, YEAH, WE CAN. WHY DON'T WE INCLUDE THAT JUST AS AN OPTION THAT COUNCIL CAN CONSIDER AND STAFF WILL RELAY THAT THERE WAS SOME INDIGESTION ABOUT THAT, AND THAT'S WHY THE OPTION IS BEING PRESENTED. YES.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A GOOD LABEL TO CONSTERNATION.
OK. DO WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE GOT IT ALL KIND OF OK? SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO GO OUT AND VOTE ON THIS AND WE'LL SEE.
WE'LL SEE KIND OF WHAT HAPPENS. BUT I THINK YOU GET THE THEME OF IT, YOU KNOW, AND I PROMISE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS GET YOU READY FOR COUNCIL.
AND MR. PALMER CAN GIVE YOU A PREVIEW OF WHAT THAT'LL BE LIKE SO THAT HOPEFULLY THIS WILL BE PRODUCTIVE FOR THAT, THAT NEXT STEP AS WELL.
[INAUDIBLE] GO AHEAD, MR. CHAIRMAN. I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE.
ITEM NUMBER SIX ON OUR AGENDA SV 21-0024.
[00:35:02]
SUBJECT TO OUR STAFF REPORT DATED NOVEMBER 3RD 2021 REVISED AND NOTING THE APPLICANT'S WILLINGNESS TO ADDRESS POTENTIAL SIZE DIFFERENCES, IN PARTICULAR ON THE WEST SIDE AND POTENTIALLY BRINGING AN OPTION IN FRONT OF COUNCIL FOR FIFTY FIVE INCH SIZE VERSION.ALSO NOTING THE APPLICANT'S WILLINGNESS TO ADDRESS THE DESIGN OF EACH SIGN WITH THE TAG LINE LOCATION BEING BELOW THE NAME AS OPPOSED TO ON EACH SIDE OF THE NAME.
ALSO NOTING THE APPLICANT'S WILLINGNESS WITH REGARD TO THE LIGHTING TO BRING IMAGES FROM OTHER LOCATIONS, AND THEN ALSO NOTING THE APPLICANT'S WILLINGNESS TO PERHAPS BRING ANOTHER IMAGE OF THE CABINET SIGN COMPLYING WITH THE ORDINANCE RATHER THAN BEING A STRAIGHT CABINET SIGN.
ALL RIGHT. THAT WAY, I THINK THEY'RE PREPARED FOR WHATEVER FEEDBACK THEY GET.
WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? OK, THAT PASSES SIX ZERO.
A QUICK REMINDER, THESE MEETINGS ARE RECORDED SO YOU CAN GO BACK AND YOU CAN KIND OF WATCH THE FEEDBACK AND GET A FLAVOR FOR IT.
THANK YOU FOR WORKING WITH US.
WE ARE EXCITED TO HAVE YOU HERE IN THE CITY.
WE'RE EXCITED TO GET A RESTAURANT OPEN IN THAT SPACE.
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND GOOD LUCK AT CITY COUNCIL.
AND WITH THAT, WE ARE ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.