>> GAVEL IN [NOISE] THE MOST EXCITING MEETING IN THE CITY OF SOUTHLAKE,
[1. Call to Order]
[00:00:05]
THE SIGNBOARD MEETING THAT WE ARE BEGINNING AT 7:59 PM.GO AHEAD. YOU'RE GOOD. OUR STAND IN VICE CHAIRMAN HAS TO RUN, SO WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO MAKE MOTIONS THIS EVENING, WHICH DR. SPRINGER WOULD BE THRILLED TO DO THAT.
WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 3, NO ADMINISTRATIVE COMMENTS.
I'M ASSUMING AND ITEM NUMBER 4, NO CHAIRMAN COMMENTS.
EXCUSE ME. IF YOU DON'T MIND GOING OUT TO THE GALLERY, THE FOYER, PLEASE.
DO YOU MIND? SORRY. WE'RE MID MEETING. NO PROBLEM.
THANK YOU. IT'S SAD NOBODY STUCK AROUND FOR US. EVERYBODY CLEARED OUT.
[5. Consider: Approving the minutes from the August 22, 2024, Sign Board Meeting.]
THIS IS EXCITING STUFF.ITEM NUMBER 5 ON OUR AGENDA, CONSIDERATION.
EVEN THE STANDING VICE CHAIR CLEARED OUT.
YOU DIDN'T WANT TO APPROVE ALL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE AUGUST 22ND SIGNBOARD MEETING.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS BEFORE WE ENTERTAIN, WHEN I'M SURE WILL BE A FINALLY CRAFT MOTION.
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE PREVIOUS MINUTES AS PRESENTED.
>> DO WE HAVE A MOTION? DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
PASSES 5-0, WE ALL GOOD. WE'RE ON A ROLL.
I GOT THE HEAD NOD, SO I THINK WE'RE IN GOOD SHAPE.
NOW WE WILL HEAR, ITEM NUMBER 6, SIGN VARIANCES FOR TOMMY'S EXPRESS CARWASH.
[6. Consider: SV24-0006, Sign Variances for Tommy's Express Car Wash, located at 101 N Pearson Lane, Southlake, Texas.]
>> QUASH IS REQUESTING VARIANCES FOR SEVERAL SIGNS FOR THEIR NEW LOCATION AT 101 NORTH PEARSON LANE.
THIS IS AN AERIAL VIEW SHOWING THE LOCATION AT THE CORNER OF PEARSON AND SOUTH LAKE BOULEVARD.
THIS IS A SIGN PLAN JUST SHOWING THE GENERAL LOCATION OF THEIR VARIOUS SIGNS THAT THEY'RE REQUESTING, AND THEN THIS IS JUST SHOWING THE SIGNS WITH THE LANDSCAPE PLAN ON HERE.
THEY ARE REQUESTING SOME VACUUM SIGNS, ATTACHED SIGNS, AND DRIVE THROUGH SIGNS.
THEY'VE PRESENTED TWO OPTIONS.
I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH OPTION 1 FIRST.
THEY'VE PACKAGED THEM TOGETHER.
FOR THE WEST ELEVATION, THERE IS A SIGN PROPOSED THAT'S ATTACHED BUILDING SIGN.
IT'S A CABINET SIGN, WHICH IS A PROHIBITED SIGN TYPE, AND THE OTHER VARIANCE FOR THIS PARTICULAR SIGN WOULD BE A LOGO HEIGHT OF 40.25" WHERE A LOGO HEIGHT OF 17.5" IS PERMITTED.
FOR THE EAST ELEVATION, THEY HAVE ANOTHER CABINET SIGN, AND THEN ALSO THE INDIVIDUAL LETTERS.
AGAIN, THE CABINET SIGN IS PROHIBITED, AND THERE WILL BE VARIANCES FOR THE LOGO HEIGHT.
THEY'RE REQUESTING 32" ON THIS ONE, AND THEY'RE ALLOWED 17.5" ON THIS ELEVATION.
THE SIGN AREA IS ALSO 112.8 SQUARE FEET, AND THEY ARE ALLOWED 89.04 SQUARE FEET ON THIS ELEVATION.
THEN ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION, AGAIN, ASKING FOR A CABINET SIGN, AND THE LOGO HEIGHT EXCEEDS THE ALLOWED LOGO HEIGHT, THEY'RE REQUESTING 40.25".
THE ALLOWED LOGO HEIGHT ON THIS ELEVATION IS 22.5", AND THE AREA IS SLIGHTLY OVER.
THEY'RE ASKING FOR 38.9 SQUARE FEET, AND THE ALLOWED SIGN AREA IS 35.42 SQUARE FEET.
THEY ARE REQUESTING A PYLON SIGN.
THIS IS JUST A PROHIBITED TYPE OF SIGN.
THEY'RE REQUESTING A SIGN HEIGHT OF 20 FEET AND A SIGN FACE HEIGHT OF 12 FEET, BUT THIS IS COMPARED TO WHAT A MONUMENT SIGN WOULD BE OVER HERE WHEN WE'RE SAYING WHAT'S PERMITTED BY THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
THE SIGN FACE AREA IS 186 SQUARE FEET AND 93 SQUARE FEET, AND THEN FOR A MONUMENT SIGN, THE SIGN BASE AND SIGN STRUCTURES SHALL BE BRICK STONE OR MASONRY MATERIAL MATCHING THE FRONT SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
THEY'RE ASKING, DO YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT MATERIAL FOR THAT? THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING A FLEX NEON RED LED BORDER LED MESSAGE BOARD, AND THE ADDRESS NUMBERS ARE 8" NON-LED.
FOR A MONUMENT SIGN, THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO HAVE 8" LETTERS WITH ILLUMINATION.
CONTINUING ON WITH OPTION 1, THEY ARE PROPOSING SOME DRIVE THROUGH SIGNS.
UNDER THE ORDINANCE, THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TWO SIGNS, OR THERE'S ALSO A PROVISION THAT CERTAIN TYPES OF SIGNS THAT ARE PROVIDING FOR DIRECTIONAL PURPOSES ARE EXEMPT FROM THE ORDINANCE AS LONG AS THEY'RE LESS THAN 6".
THEY'RE PROPOSING TWO SIGNS, AND THE SIGN AREA IS 4.7 SQUARE FEET.
[00:05:01]
SORRY, THAT EXEMPTION IS FOR SIGNS THAT AREN'T VISIBLE FROM ADJOINING STREETS.THEN THEY HAVE THESE VACUUM SIGNS.
IT'S REALLY JUST NOT A SPECIFIED SIGN TYPE IN OUR ORDINANCE.
THEY'RE REQUESTING 14 SIGNS FOR THE DIFFERENT VACUUM STALLS, LETTER HEIGHT OF 9.25", SIGN WIDTH OF 46.46", AND THE SIGN AREA IS THREE SQUARE FEET.
MOVING ON TO OPTION NUMBER 2, OPTION 1 IS THEIR PREFERRED OPTION, BUT FOR OPTION 2 ON THE WEST ELEVATION, IT'S MORE OF THE CHANNEL CUT TYPE LETTERS, BUT THERE IS A SMALL SIGN UNDERNEATH THAT IS A CABINET, AND AGAIN, THE CABINET SIGNS ARE PROHIBITED.
THAT'S THEIR TAG LINE. THEY ARE REQUESTING A LOGO HEIGHT OF ALMOST 69".
LOGO HEIGHT FOR THIS LOCATION IS ALLOWED TO BE 17.5".
THE SIGN AREA IS 102.9 SQUARE FEET.
THE PERMITTED SIGN AREA IS 89.04 SQUARE FEET, AND THE LOGO AREA IS 63 SQUARE FEET AND THE LOGO AREA PERMITTED IS 17.8 SQUARE FEET.
ON THE EAST ELEVATION, THERE'S NO CABINET SIGN ON THIS ONE, BUT THE LETTER HEIGHT EXCEEDS THE ALLOWABLE LETTER HEIGHT, SAME WITH THE LOGO AND SIGN AREA.
LETTER HEIGHT REQUESTED IS 25.36", LOGO HEIGHT IS 55", SIGN AREA IS 124.9 SQUARE FEET, AND THE LOGO AREA IS 40 SQUARE FEET.
ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION, THEY HAVE THE CHANNEL LETTER SIGN WITH THE CABINET TAG LINE.
AGAIN, THE CABINET TAG LINE IS NOT A PERMITTED SIGN TYPE.
ALSO, THE LOGO HEIGHT IS 41.73".
AT THIS LOCATION, THEY'RE ALLOWED 22.5".
SIGN AREA IS JUST SLIGHTLY OVER AT 37.7 SQUARE FEET.
THEY'RE ALLOWED 35.42 SQUARE FEET, AND FOR LOGO AREA, THEY'RE REQUESTING 23 SQUARE FEET AND THEY'RE ALLOWED SEVEN SQUARE FEET.
FOR THEIR MONUMENT SIGN TYPE, AGAIN, THEY'RE REQUESTING A DIFFERENT TYPE OF MATERIAL FOR THE SIGN.
A FLEX NEON RED LED BORDER, AND THE ADDRESS NUMBERS ARE 8" NON LIT.
WITH THE MONUMENT SIGN, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE 8" AND MUST BE ILLUMINATED.
MOVING ON TO THE DRIVE THROUGH TYPE SIGNS, THE PRIMARY VARIANCE HERE IS FOR THE SIGN AREA AT 4.7 SQUARE FEET.
IT'S ALLOWED TO BE FOUR SQUARE FEET.
THEN THERE'S JUST TWO NON-SPECIFIED SIGN TYPES.
THEY'RE REQUESTING TWO SIGNS, SIGN AREA OF ONE SQUARE FEET FOR THESE ERO SIGNS.
THE VACUUM SIGNS, IT'S JUST NOT A SPECIFIED SIGN TYPE.
THEY'RE ASKING FOR 14 SIGNS WITH A LETTER HEIGHT OF 9.25" SIGN WIDTH AND SIGN AREA OF THREE SQUARE FEET.
I'M JUST GIVING SOME ADDITIONAL DETAILS ON EACH OF THE PARTICULAR SIGNS.
OPTION 1, THE WEST ELEVATION, OPTION 1, EAST ELEVATION, OPTION 1, SOUTH ELEVATION.
THIS IS THE SOUTH ELEVATION DRIVE THROUGH OPTION 1, AND THE SOUTH ELEVATION DRIVE THROUGH LANE LIGHTS OPTION 1, PYLON SIGN OPTION 1.
JUST ANOTHER VIEW OF THE PYLON SIGN, OPTION 1.
THESE ARE THE VACUUM STALLS, THE SIGN OPTION 1.
WEST ELEVATION OPTION 2, EAST ELEVATION OPTION 2, SOUTH ELEVATION OPTION 2, SOUTH ELEVATION DRIVE THROUGH OPTION 2, AND SOUTH ELEVATION DRIVE THROUGH LANE LIGHTS OPTION 2, AND THE MONUMENT SIGN FOR OPTION 2, AND THE SOUTHWEST VIEW OPTION 2, NORTHWEST VIEW OPTION 2, AND THE VACUUM STALLS SIGN OPTION 2.
THESE ARE JUST SOME SITE PHOTOS SHOWING THE CURRENT CONDITIONS ON THE PROPERTY.
I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
>> QUESTIONS. I'D ASK STAFF IF THEY CAN HELP US AS THEY MOVE THROUGH, MAYBE GO BACK TO THOSE SLIDES.
PERFECT. WE CAN GO THROUGH HERE ONE AT A TIME, AND JUST SO ALL THAT THE APPLICANTS KNOW WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL GO THROUGH THEM, FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR THOUGHTS ARE, AND THEN WE'LL CALL THE APPLICANT UP AND JUST DISCUSS THE FEEDBACK.
WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO EVERYBODY BEING AMENDABLE AND FLEXIBLE TO TRY TO ACHIEVE SOME LEVEL OF CONSENSUS HERE SO THAT WE CAN FIGURE OUT A RECOMMENDATION.
[00:10:06]
ANY STRONG PREFERENCES BETWEEN OPTION 1 AND OPTION 2?>> IT WAS CONFUSING THE WAY YOU STARTED IT THOUGH. [LAUGHTER]
>> I'M SORRY. I WAS JUST SO TAKEN ABOARD THIS.
I'M GOING LIKE, I'VE NEVER SEE SUCH FLAGRANT.
>> ANYONE ELSE HAVE A STRONG IN OPINION? GO.
>> I HAVE A VERY STRONG FEELING ABOUT THE PYLON SIGN.
>> I THINK THAT'S THE EASIEST THING HERE. I LOOKED AT IT.
THAT COULD BE IN I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YEARS UP HERE.
ONE OF THE WORST SIGNS I'VE SEEN EVER IN STAFF REPORT.
>> OTHER THAN [INAUDIBLE] SORRY.
ARE WE OKAY LOOKING AT THE OPTION 2, I GUESS, IF MAYBE YOU DON'T MIND CLICKING TO THOSE.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? BY THE WAY, I WANT TO THANK THE APPLICANT FOR PROVIDING OPTIONS.
A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE GET IN HERE, WE HAVE TO PROVOKE THAT OUT OF THE APPLICANT, AND THEN IT SLOWS THINGS DOWN.
I APPRECIATE THAT. YOU'VE HOPEFULLY SAVED US SOME TIME.
I GUESS, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THESE IN TERMS OF THE RED FONT VARIANCES WITHIN THEM? WELL, WHAT WE CAN DO IS ON THIS ONE, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON EITHER THE WEST, EAST, OR SOUTH ELEVATION SLIDES? ANY OF THOSE THREE, FEEL FREE TO COMMENT.
WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN, AGAIN, TRY TO ACHIEVE SOME CONSENSUS.
>> WELL, I THINK THEY'RE REALLY OVERPLAYING THE LOGO BECAUSE I THINK ANYBODY DRIVING BY HERE IS GOING TO REALIZE THIS IS A CAR WASH.
I THEY GOT A BRAND THEY'RE TRYING TO PUSH, BUT THEY'RE DOUBLE THE SIZES OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER, THEY'VE GOT TO COME BACK SOMEWHERE CLOSER TO REALITY BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, I DON'T THINK THAT HAVING THEM SMALLER IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY FROM THEIR BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY.
>> GOOD. OPTION 2, AND I'M NOT SURE MATHEMATICALLY HOW TO ACHIEVE THAT BECAUSE SOME OF THE REQUESTED VARIANCES ARE LARGER THAN OTHERS.
IT'S NOT TO SAY CUT EVERYTHING IN HALF.
>> WELL, I THINK FOR ME IT'S A LOT OF HOW IT LOOKS PROPORTIONATELY ON EACH PART OF THE BUILDING THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING.
THAT TOP PICTURE, I THINK THAT'S JUST TOO BIG.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE THAT LARGE ON THAT.
FOR ME, IT'S JUST MORE OF A VISUAL.
HOW DOES IT LOOK ON EACH PORTION OF THE BUILDING IF THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SHOWING US PROPORTIONATELY? THE BOTTOM ONE LOOKS FINE TO ME, BUT THE TOP ONE LOOKS JUST UNNECESSARILY LARGE.
>> THE OTHER PICTURES THAT THEY HAD, THEY GAVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE PERSPECTIVE ON THE LOOK, THE OTHER SLIDES, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, YOU DON'T HAVE THE PERMITTED AND THE PROPOSED TO LOOK AT THOSE, BUT I GUESS WE COULD LOOK AT THOSE IN A MOMENT.
>> DO YOU MIND MAYBE JUST FLIPPING FORWARD TO THE OPTION 2, THESE RENDERING ONES.
MAYBE JUST FLIP THROUGH THESE REAL QUICK.
I THINK WE'VE NOTED THE CONCERNS.
IF WE GO BACK TO THE, THANK YOU, A LITTLE FARTHER.
IT'S LIKE A KEGER OUT IN FOYER RIGHT NOW.
NEIGHBORHOOD PARTY. LET'S GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. THAT'S OKAY.
I THINK CLEARLY THIS IS THE MONUMENT SIGN, NOT THE OTHER ONE.
>> WELL, THE SIZE OF THE ADDRESS AND NON LIGHTED ADDRESS, THAT'S PRETTY SIMPLE TO CORRECT.
[00:15:03]
I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE LIGHTED THE ADDRESS, BUT AS FAR AS THE SIZE OF IT, IT LOOKS PROPORTIONAL TO ME.>> IT'S FUNNY. I ACTUALLY STRUGGLED WITH THE OTHER TWO VARIANCES MORE THAN THAT ONE.
I DIDN'T WANT TO SIGN WITH A RED NEON EDGE TO IT AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S 6" OF BRICK.
SOMETIMES WE LET HIM GET AWAY WITH LIKE 3" OF BRICK, BUT JUST SOMETHING AROUND IT.
I COULD GO EITHER WAY ON THE ADDRESS, BUT THAT'S FINE AS WELL.
>> LET'S GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
I KNOW THESE ARE TECHNICALLY SIGNS, SO THEY HAVE TO COME IN FRONT OF US, ALBEIT, THEY'RE FAR BACK IN THE ROAD AND MORE INSTRUCTIONAL IN NATURE, I GUESS.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT ANY OF THESE?
>> WELL, I DO, BECAUSE THE VACUUM SIGN, THERE'S 14 OF THEM.
I JUST FEEL LIKE PEOPLE WOULD KNOW IT'S A VACUUM WITHOUT A SIGN THAT SAYS VACUUM.
>> WHERE IS THAT? IS IT JUST NUMBER OF SIGNS OR WOULD YOU WANT IT SMALLER?
>> WELL, MAYBE THERE'S AN EXPLANATION WHEN THE APPLICANT COMES UP.
>> IT'S LIKE MCDONALD SAYING COFFEE MIGHT BE HOT.
>> DO YOU MIND GOING TO THE NEXT SLIDE, I THINK.
MAYBE WE'LL CALL THE APPLICANT UP HERE AND CONVEY THE SENTIMENT AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO AND THEN TRY TO CRAFT A MOTION.
DOES THAT SOUND GOOD? DO WE HAVE THE APPLICANT? YES, SIR.
THANK YOU FOR PATIENTLY WAITING THINGS OUT.
WE TRIED TO MOVE IT AS QUICK AS WE COULD.
NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, IF YOU DON'T MIND.
I'M ONE OF THE OWNERS FOR THE CAR WASH. MY ADDRESS IS 8505 CLAY HIBBINS ROAD IN KELLER.
I REALIZED I'M IN SOUTHLAKE A LOT.
I KNOW THERE'S NO OTHER PYLON SIGNS LIKE THAT.
THE REASON WHY, SO GOING BACK TO THE SIGNS IN GENERAL, THIS IS A FRANCHISE, AND THE RED IS STANDARD FOR THE FRANCHISE.
ACTUALLY, THE ENTIRE BUILDING WAS RED AT ONE POINT.
>> WE MAJORLY TONED DOWN THE ENTIRE BUILDING.
I REALLY LIKE THE LOOK OF IT RIGHT NOW WITH THE BRICK AND EVERYTHING, BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW, IT IS A FRANCHISE AND THE RED IS STANDARD.
THE RED POPS AND IT'S REALLY EYE CATCHING, WHICH IS SUPER HELPFUL FOR MY BUSINESS.
THE PYLON SIGN WE PUT THERE BECAUSE IN MY LOCATION IN DALLAS I HAVE IT AND I LIKE IT BECAUSE I CAN DISPLAY RIGHT NOW, WE OFFER A 20% OFF DISCOUNT FOR ALL MILITARY AND FIRST RESPONDERS.
I DISPLAY THAT ON THE PYLON SIGN.
THEN ALSO IN THIS LOCATION, JUST BECAUSE OF THE WESTBOUND TRAFFIC HEADING DOWN THE HILL, YOU HAVE THE MASSIVE WATER TOWERS THERE THAT OBSTRUCT A LOT OF THE VIEW.
THAT WAS PARTIAL ASK, BUT AGAIN, I KNOW IT'S A STRETCH.
MY ASK, THOUGH IS THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING, THE ONES THAT'S SAY CAR WASH IN OPTION 1, IF YOU GO TO THE RENDERINGS, CAN I SCROLL?
IT'S NOT OVERLY IN YOUR FACE, ESPECIALLY THE TUNNELS PUSHED BACK OR IT'S NOT RIGHT ON SOUTH LAKE BOULEVARD.
AGAIN, WE'RE JUST SELFISHLY LOOKING OUT FOR THE BUSINESS AND TRYING TO CATCH PEOPLE'S EYES AS THEY'RE DRIVING BY.
I UNDERSTAND THEY'RE GOING TO REALIZE IT'S A CAR WASH.
BUT AGAIN WE REALLY TONED DOWN THE COLORS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
IT WOULD REALLY HELP HELP ME A LOT.
EVEN WHEN IT SAYS CAR WASH, IT IS REALLY CATCHING.
[00:20:02]
MY LOCATION IN DALLAS IS RIGHT OFF GEORGE BUSH.YOU COULD SEE IT FROM THE FREEWAY, AND IT'S VERY CLEAR THERE'S A CAR WASH THERE.
IT'S REALLY EVIDENT, SO IT BRINGS PEOPLE IN.
THE VACUUM THING, THERE'S OVER 200 LOCATIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY.
I'VE NEVER SEEN NOT DO THOSE, BUT I GUESS THAT'S FINE.
I AGREE WITH YOU PEOPLE THAT HAVE ASSUMED THE VACUUMS. PROBABLY SAVE ME A COST ON GETTING THOSE THINGS MADE ANYWAY.
>> DO YOU MIND SHOWING THE OPTION 2 VERSION OF THIS RENDERING. THANK YOU.
>> OF THE RENDERINGS LIKE THIS?
>> YEAH. THE PULLED BACK VIEW.
>> AGAIN, THE MONUMENT CENTER RIGHT HERE, IT LOOKS SHARP.
BUT AGAIN, THE PYLON SIGN WAS REALLY JUST TO CATCH PEOPLE'S EYES, DISPLAY WHAT WE ARE OFFERING TO THE PUBLIC.
>> BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NOT EXACTLY LIKE DRIVING DOWN THE FREEWAY.
YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF STOP TRAFFIC AT THAT LIGHT RIGHT THERE THAT'S GOING TO GIVE PEOPLE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.
>> WE REALIZED THAT. BUT AGAIN, THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF OBSTRUCTION BECAUSE WE'RE RIGHT UP AGAINST THOSE WATER TOWERS THERE.
AGAIN, SELFISHLY FOR THE BUSINESS, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
>> I KNOW, BUT YOU ALSO UNDERSTAND WHERE WE'RE COMING FROM AS YOU'RE ASKING FOR SOME FAR LARGER SIGNS THAN A SIGNED ORDINANCE ALLOWS.
WE HAVE TO WATCH OUT FOR SETTING PRECEDENTS FOR OTHER PEOPLE COMING IN AND WANTING TO DO OUTLANDISH THINGS.
>> I UNDERSTAND THAT. AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT SIZE WOULD BE FAIR.
A SMALLER SIZE, I THINK IT WOULD LOOK SILLY ON THAT BUILDING THERE SAYING CAR WASH.
THE BRAND, I GUESS THE TOMMY'S EXPRESS THING WOULD BE FINE, BUT AGAIN, AT LEAST ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY ON THIS ONE.
I DON'T KNOW. IF YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO, I GUESS SETTING THE WHOLE STANDARD THING, BUT I DON'T KNOW.
I'M TRYING HERE. LIKE I SAID, WE GAVE A LOT ON THE COLORS OF THE WHOLE BUILDING AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
I THINK YOU HEARD THE OPTION 2 WAS THE PREFERENCE UP HERE.
THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE WAY I WAS GOING TO LEAN IN AS WELL, MAYBE NOT QUITE AS EMPHATICALLY.
WHAT YOU CAN DO IS MAYBE WE TRY TO CRAFT SOMETHING TO KEEP THINGS MOVING ALONG POSSIBLE, BUT HEAR ME OUT HERE.
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
YOU CAN TAKE ALL OF THIS TO COUNCIL.
WE MAY RECOMMEND THIS, BUT YOU CAN STILL SHOW THIS.
NOW, THEY MAY GO WITH OUR RECOMMENDATION, BUT YOU STILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO SHOW OTHER OPTIONS.
THEY MAY NOT PICK IT, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE YOU JUST SHOW WHAT WE RECOMMEND.
I THINK WHAT WE MIGHT RECOMMEND IS THE OPTION 2 PACKAGE.
WE'LL HAVE TO SEE IF PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS.
SOME LANGUAGE THAT THERE BE A SECOND VERSION OF THE WEST, EAST, AND SOUTH SIGNS THAT ARE SOMEWHAT SMALLER.
AGAIN, TO YOUR POINT, WE'VE DONE THIS A FEW TIMES.
IF YOU SHOW THIS RENDERING RIGHT HERE AND YOU SHOW US A LITTLE SMALLER VERSION AND YOU SAY, HEY, THIS LOOKS SILLY, YOU CAN SHOW IT TO COUNCIL, AND IF THEY AGREE, THEY'LL DO THE ORIGINAL ONE.
BUT THAT WAY, SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO DO HERE, WHICH WAS HELPFUL, IF WE PROVIDE COUNCIL AN OPTION, THEN THEY CAN LOOK AT IT THAT NIGHT AND MAKE A DECISION AND GO.
THAT'S, I THINK MAYBE THE BETTER WAY TO DO THIS BECAUSE THEY'LL ULTIMATELY MAKE THE DECISION, BUT WE MIGHT RECOMMEND SOMETHING THAT'S A SMALLER VERSION OF THE SOUTH, EAST, AND WEST SIGNS, MAYBE AN ALTERNATE VERSION WITHOUT THE VACUUM SIGN FOR THEM CONSIDER.
THEN THE MONUMENT SIGN, OPTION 2, OBVIOUSLY, MAYBE WITH AND WITHOUT VARIANCES.
YOU'LL GET THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE YOUR CASE, AND THEN WE'LL SEE WHERE THEY LAND.
BUT AT LEAST THEY'LL HAVE ALL THE TOOLS IN FRONT OF THEM THAT NIGHT, I THINK, TO MAKE A DECISION.
WE CAN CRAFT A MOTION IN A SECOND, BUT DOES THAT SOUND HOPEFULLY OKAY?
[00:25:03]
THE APPLICANT KNOWS HE CAN BRING FORWARD EVEN AS OPTION 1 SIGNS IF HE WANTS.BUT MAYBE IN THE EFFORT OF TRYING TO BRING THINGS TO A CONCLUSION, WE COULD MAYBE RECOMMEND OPTION 2 SIGNS.
I DON'T KNOW MATHEMATICALLY HOW TO RECOMMEND IT.
WE CAN EVEN JUST SAY A SMALLER VERSION.
>> WE'LL TRUST THE APPLICANT DOESN'T MAKE IT JUST THIS MUCH SMALLER, BUT SOME AMOUNT SMALLER.
>> I'M NOT TRYING TO THROW A WRENCH IN THE DIRECTION YOU'RE IN, BUT I THINK IN OUR PRESENTATION, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALL UNDERSTOOD THEY ARE ASKING FOR THREE ATTACHED BUILDING SIGNS, AND THE ORDINANCE DOES ONLY ALLOW TWO?
>> I THINK I COULD ACTUALLY BE OKAY WITH THAT AS LONG AS THEY'RE THE TYPE AND SIZE WE'RE OKAY WITH.
THE FRONT ONE ACTUALLY IS PROBABLY THE SMALLEST OF ALL.
>> THE ONE THAT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE THERE THAT LOOKS LIKE THE ENTRANCE OR THE EXIT THERE, WHICHEVER ONE IT IS, I SUPPOSE THAT'S THE EXIT, THAT SEEMS TO ME THE ONE THAT'S MORE ACCEPTABLE.
>> MAYBE THE MOTION WOULD BE A SMALLER VERSION OF THE WEST AND EAST ONES, NOT ADDRESS THE SOUTH ONE ALL ON THE OPTION 2 UMBRELLA AND IT MAYBE A MONUMENT SIGN THAT THE OPTIONS WOULD BE, ONE IS PRESENTED OPTION 2, AND THEN ONE THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE SIGN ORDINANCE, AND THEN THEY CAN PICK.
THAT'S WHERE THE APPLICANT CAN MAKE HIS CASE THAT THE FIRST VERSION LOOKS BETTER.
WE CAN ALWAYS SHOW AN ALTERNATE VERSION WITHOUT VACUUM SIGNS.
DOES SOMETHING LIKE THAT SOUND?
>> ABSOLUTELY. HERE AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, I KNOW EVERYBODY ALWAYS WANTS MAXIMUM SIGNAGE, AND THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT FROM SPACE, BUT THIS IS A DIFFERENT SITUATION HERE.
THIS IS 45-MILE AN HOUR TRAFFIC.
IT'S AT A STOP LIGHT WHERE IT'S STOPPED THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME.
HE'S GOT A LARGE MONUMENT SIGN THAT'S OUT ON THE STREET THAT'S GOING TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW THERE'S A CAR WASH THERE.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE CAR WASH PLASTERED ALL OVER IT TO REALIZE THAT IT'S A CAR WASH.
>> WHY DON'T WE TRY TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION BASED ON THAT, AND WE CAN WALK THROUGH IT AND MAKE SURE WE THINK WE'RE CAPTURING IT.
>> LET ME SEE IF I CAN DO THIS.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE CASE SV24-006, SIGN VARIANT OR TOMMY'S EXPRESS CAR WASH, REFERENCING THE STAFF REPORT DATED SEPTEMBER 13TH OF 2024 WITH THE PROVISIONS THAT THE APPLICANT BRING A REVISED VERSION OF OPTION 2, WHERE THE SOUTH SIGN, A BUILDING SIGN, THE EAST AND THE WEST SIGNS ARE COMPARABLE SIZE.
>> MAYBE LEAVING THE SOUTH SIGN ALONE, BUT REDUCING THE SIZE OF THE EAST AND WEST [OVERLAPPING].
>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT I SAY MAKE THEM ALL THE SAME.
>> REDUCE THE EAST AND WEST TO SOME DEGREE?
>> YEAH. THE WEST AND THE EAST SIGNS WOULD BE COMPARABLE TO THE SOUTH SIGN PRESENTLY.
>> JUST KNOW THIS MEETINGS ARE RECORDED SO YOU CAN GO BACK AND WATCH IT IF YOU'RE UNSURE OF NAMES.
>> THE MONUMENT SIGN SHOULD HAVE LIGHTED ADDRESS INDICATED ON IT.
THE VACUUM AND DRIVE-THROUGH SIGNS, THERE WILL BE NO SIGNS FOR THOSE AREAS.
>> THE VACUUM SIGN. SHOW AN ALTERNATE VERSION WITH NO VACUUM.
>> [OVERLAPPING] ALTERNATE VERSION WITH THAT.
>> SHOW AN ALTERNATE WITH NO VACUUM SIGNS.
>> THEN ON THE MONUMENT SIGN, [OVERLAPPING] I WOULD JUST SAY ONE VERSION AS REQUESTED AND ONE VERSION WITH NO VARIANCES.
ALL VARIANCES DENIED. THEN THAT CAPTURES YOUR.
>> THE MONUMENT SIGN WOULD BE WITH NO VARIANCES AND PRESENT IT AS YOU'VE PRESENTED IT IN OPTION 2 NOW?
>> YES. STAFF NEED HELP WITH THAT? WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT MOTION?
>> WHAT ABOUT DRIVE-THROUGH SIGN?
>> DRIVE THROUGH SIGN, ANY CHANGES OF IT?
>> JUST AN ALTERNATE VERSION WITHOUT THE WORD VACUUM IN IT.
I DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS ANYTHING ELSE.
>> THERE WASN'T. I DON'T THINK.
>> BECAUSE WE AGREED TO NOT DO THE VACUUM SIGNS,
[00:30:04]
THAT THOSE WERE NOT NECESSARY.>> CAN I CLARIFY ON THE EAST AND WEST SIZE, WE'RE NOT SAYING WE WANT IT TO BE COMPARABLE TO THE SOUTHERN SIZE.
WE'RE SAYING WE JUST WANT THE EAST AND WEST TO BE SMALLER VERSIONS OF WHAT HE'S PROPOSING, BUT NOT COMPARABLE TO THE ONE ON THE SOUTH.
>> THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT I WOULD PROPOSE.
>> BECAUSE I THINK THAT WOULD BE TOO SMALL.
>> I DON'T KNOW. YOU GUYS WANT IT THAT WAY?
>> THAT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE.
>> COUNCIL CAN ALWAYS SHRINK IT DOWN A LITTLE MORE IF THEY NEED TO.
>> I'M GOING TO AMEND THE PROPOSAL THAT THE WEST AND EAST FACING SIGNS WILL BE REDUCED IN SIZE, NOT NECESSARILY EQUAL TO THE SOUTHERN SIGN.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND?
NEXT COUNCIL MEETING ON OCTOBER 1ST.
I THINK YOU CAN WATCH THE VIDEO AGAIN.
I THINK YOU GET THE SENSE OF WHERE WE'RE GOING.
AGAIN, YOU CAN PUT IT IN FRONT OF COUNCIL AND ADVOCATE HOW YOU'D LIKE WE CAN GO FROM THERE. THANK YOU.
NOW WE MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 7 ON OUR AGENDA THIS EVENING,
[7. Consider: SV24-0008, Variance to the Master Sign Plan for Southlake Town Square for Tommy Bahama, located at 160 State Street, Southlake, Texas]
WHICH IS A VARIANCE OF THE MASTER SIGN PLAN FOR SOUTHLAKE TOWN SQUARE AND TOMMY BAHAMA.>> TOMMY BAHAMA IS REQUESTING APPROVAL OF TWO VISUAL ART WALL MURALS, AND THESE ARE VARIANCES TO THE SOUTHLAKE TOWN SQUARE MASTER SIGN PLAN.
THE LOCATION IS 160 STATE STREET.
HERE'S AN AERIAL VIEW SHOWING THE LOCATION OF TOMMY BAHAMA.
THEY ARE IN THIS SUITE RIGHT DOWN HERE.
THIS IS SHOWING THE PROPOSED MURAL LOCATIONS.
THEY'RE PROPOSING ONE HERE AND ONE HERE ON THE BACK OF THE BUILDING.
THE SOUTHLAKE TOWN SQUARE MASTER SIGN PLAN DOES ALLOW VISUAL ART WALL MURALS WITH APPROVAL BY CITY COUNCIL FOLLOWING A RECOMMENDATION BY THE SIGN BOARD.
BUT IT DOES SPECIFY THAT THEY ARE LIMITED TO ONE SQUARE FEET OF ARTWORK PER ONE LINEAR FOOT OF ELEVATION, NOT TO EXCEED 150 SQUARE FEET.
FOR THIS LOCATION, THE LARGER ELEVATION THAT THEY HAVE HERE, THEY'D BE ALLOWED A MAXIMUM OF 88.75 SQUARE FEET, AND THEY ARE REQUESTING A TOTAL AREA OF 1,609.92 SQUARE FEET.
ON THE REAR ELEVATION, THE MAXIMUM TOTAL AREA IS 50.71 SQUARE FEET ALLOWED, AND THE TOTAL AREA REQUESTED IS 658.07 SQUARE FEET.
THIS IS THE SOUTH ELEVATION SHOWING THE PROPOSED MURAL, AND THIS IS THE WEST ELEVATION SHOWING THE PROPOSED MURAL.
THEY DO HAVE APPROVED WALL SIGNS.
THESE DO NOT REQUIRE ANY VARIANCES.
WE HAVE SOME SITE PHOTOS HERE SHOWING THEIR ATTACHED BUILDING SIGN AND THEIR PEDESTRIAN BLADE SIGN, AND SIGN ON THE REAR OF THE BUILDING.
JUST SHOWING SOME OTHER MURALS THAT WE'VE APPROVED IN THE PAST.
WE HAVE SHAKE SHACK, THE NIKE, WHISTLE BRITCHES, OZEKI.
>> CAN YOU GO BACK AND JUST GO THROUGH THEM A LITTLE SLOWER HERE REAL QUICK.
DANCE WITH ME, AND THE WEST SIDE DISTRICT PAINTED SIGN.
IT DIDN'T REALLY REQUIRE VARIANCE APPROVAL.
THIS WAS JUST A DIFFERENT APPROVAL FOR THIS.
THIS WAS A MANY, MANY YEARS AGO.
THIS DID GO TO ARTS COUNCIL, AND THEY DID APPROVE IT 7-0.
HOWEVER, THEY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE DESIGN ON THE BACK OF THE BUILDING BUT NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
THAT WAS THEIR RECOMMENDATION.
I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
>> CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE SLIDE.
>> I WILL NOTE THAT PRETTY MUCH THE MAJORITY OF MURALS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED DON'T FIT IN WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT'S IN THE MASTER SIGN PLAN, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT THEY HAVE LISTED IN THE MASTER SIGN PLAN.
IT DOES SAY ANY VISUAL ART WALL MURAL HAS TO BE APPROVED BY SIGN BOARD AND COUNCIL.
THEN IT HAS THESE REGULATIONS FOR SIZE, BUT IT'S PRETTY RARE THAT THEY FIT WITHIN THAT.
THAT'S A PRETTY SMALL AREA WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A MURAL.
>> WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS, THE ARTS COUNCIL, I GUESS, SPECIFICALLY,
[00:35:04]
THEY RECOMMENDED, IF YOU TAKE THE MOUSE, LITERALLY IT'S THE ENTIRE RECTANGLE, I GUESS, AND IT'S JUST THE LOWER HALF?>> YEAH. IS THE WEST ELEVATION.
>> WHEN YOU SAY IT'S JUST THE LOWER HALF, IT'S A RED BRICK COLOR NOW.
>> NO, THE BUILDING HAS BEEN PAINTED.
>> YES. THIS IS THE COLOR OF THE BUILDING NOW.
>> PERFECT. AS THE ARTS COUNCIL RECOMMENDS, IT WOULD JUST BE THAT PART ON THE BACK, AND THAT'S IT.
NOT THE UPPER STORY, NOT THE SIDE OF THE STREET.
>> PERFECT. THANK YOU. THAT'S HELPFUL. I APPRECIATE THAT.
ANYTHING MORE FOR STAFF? NOW, I GUESS I APPROACHED THESE HESITANTLY.
I THINK THE SLIDE SHARE I DIDN'T REALIZE THE NIKE ONE LOOKED LIKE THAT.
THAT SHOW SHOWS YOU, BY THE WAY, HOW OFTEN I GET IN TOWN SQUARE.
>> AND HOW MUCH THOSE MURALS REALLY AFFECT PEOPLE.
>> WELL, AS INTERESTING AS IT LOOKS AND FLIP SIDE OF IT IS, I NEVER REALLY NOTICED IT EITHER.
DIDN'T SCARE ME, BUT DIDN'T LOOK IT. ANYWAY.
>> I GUESS I WANT TO BE DISCERNING ABOUT WHAT WE APPROVE, BUT I THINK I COULD ACTUALLY GET THERE ON WHAT THE ARTS COUNCIL APPROVED ON THE BACK OF THIS BUILDING.
YOU'RE AT THE BACK OF A RETAIL CENTER.
NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE SEE IT UNLESS YOU'RE JUST PARKING YOUR CAR, GOING INTO DEL FRISCO'S.
I THINK I COULD GET THERE ON THE ARTS COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION.
HOWEVER, I WOULD ASK, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID WITH SHAKE SHACK, THAT THEY WORK IN SOME ADDITIONAL LOCAL, I KNOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A BEACH THEME, FLARE.
WHETHER IT'S A STATE OF TEXAS OR IT'S A DRAGON.
THAT'S WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO WITH THESE, IS MAKE THEM NOT TOO GLARING, BUT YET WORK IN SOME LOCAL APPEAL.
THAT WOULD MAYBE BE THE ONLY CAVEAT, BUT I KNOW THERE'S GOING TO BE FIVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON THIS.
>> I WENT AND LOOKED TODAY BECAUSE I COULDN'T REMEMBER EITHER.
WHAT NIKE HAS DONE IS GONE AROUND THE CORNER WITH THAT SAME THEME AND PUT IT IN THEIR WINDOWS AS PART OF THEIR ADVERTISING DISPLAY.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY HAVE AS MANY WINDOWS, BUT THAT CHANGES THE WHOLE INTENT A LITTLE BIT.
IF WE DID IT ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT COUNCIL DIDN'T RECOMMEND, IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS THE NIKE ONE, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MATTERS.
>> WELL, IT'S LIKE A WRAP, THE WAY THEY'RE DOING IT.
JUST LOOKS LIKE THE OUTLINE OF PALMS. IT'S NOT AS MUCH IN YOUR FACE AS SOME OF THOSE REALLY BRIGHT COLORS ARE TO START WITH.
AS YOU SAID, IF YOU JUST WENT WITH THE BACK PORTION OF IT BACK THERE, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE OFFENSIVE.
>> FROM A FUNCTIONAL STANDPOINT, JUST SIDE NOTE, AND WE LITERALLY JUST HAD ONE TONIGHT, OFTEN ON AND OFF, THAT PART OF TOWN SQUARE IS CLOSED.
I KNOW IT ANNOYS THE RETAILERS BECAUSE IT DRIVES AWAY SHOPPERS.
MAYBE IT CAN BE MORE HELPFUL IN TERMS OF WHEN THOSE FESTIVALS COME THROUGH. BUT ANYWAY, GO AHEAD.
>> THAT WAS IT. LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT A BUNCH OF RAINBOW COLORS, AND THEY'RE JUST REALLY OBSCURE SHAPES.
>> YOU WOULD SUPPORT THE ARTS COUNCIL VERSION OR THE BIGGER VERSION?
>> NO. THE ARTS COUNCIL VERSIONS WHERE WE'RE JUST DOING THE BACK BECAUSE I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO DO THE SIDES.
WHO WANTS TO GO NEXT ON PREFERENCE?
>> I WOULD PREFER THE ARTS COUNCIL VERSION AS WELL.
I ACTUALLY THINK IT LOOKS BETTER THAN WHAT IT IS TODAY WITH JUST THE PLANE BACK.
I THINK THIS IS PRETTY DISCREET. I LIKE IT.
I WOULD PREFER NO DRAGONS, BUT DON'T HIT ME.
I CRINGED WHEN YOU SUGGESTED THAT.
>> DRAGONS FLYING THROUGH THE LEAVES.
>> I'M NOT SURE YOU'RE ALLOWED TO SAY NO DRAGONS ON THIS DAIS.
THAT COULD GET YOU IN TROUBLE.
WE COULD GET ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING GOING.
>> I THINK YOU MADE AN EXCELLENT POINT, THOUGH, THAT IT WOULD DRAW MORE BUSINESS BECAUSE EVERYBODY REALIZES THERE'S BACK DOORS.
>> I AGREE WITH THE ARTS COUNCIL VERSION.
>> IS THE APPLICANT HERE THIS EVENING? DO YOU WANT TO COME UP AND SAY A FEW WORDS REAL QUICK, OR IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT?
[00:40:05]
YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME UP. YOU STUCK IT OUT THIS LONG, IF YOU WANT TO COME UP AND SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS, BUT OTHERWISE, I THINK WE'VE COALESCED AROUND.AGAIN, LIKE I TOLD THE OTHER APPLICANT, YOU CAN PRESENT WHATEVER YOU WANT AT COUNCIL, BUT THEY'LL LOOK AT OUR RECOMMENDATION AS WELL. BUT GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
>> I'M CHERYL USNICK. I'M WITH TOMMY BAHAMA, AND WE'RE BASED OUT OF SEATTLE, WASHINGTON.
I THINK WE HEARD WHAT THE ARTS COUNCIL HAD TO SAY.
WE'D STILL LOVE TO WRAP IT AROUND THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND FEEL THAT BECAUSE IT IS A LOT MELLOWER THAN WHAT NIKE HAD DONE, IT WON'T READ QUITE LIKE IT'S IN YOUR FACE AS THAT.
>> HOW DID THAT HAPPEN? WELL, WE CAN GO BACK AND CHECK THAT.
WELL, AGAIN, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'LL MAKE A RECOMMENDATION MAYBE CONSISTENT WITH ARTS COUNCIL, BUT YOU CAN ALSO INCLUDE THE LARGER VERSION FOR COUNCIL TO CONSIDER, AND THEY'LL RULE ACCORDINGLY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? WE'RE GOOD.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR STICKING IT OUT.
>> ARE WE GOING TO DESCRIBE THAT AS THE WEST LOWER SIDE OF THE BUILDING?
>> STAFF, WOULD WE SAY THAT OF THE REQUEST IN FRONT OF US TONIGHT, WE WOULD DENY A VARIANCE FOR THE SOUTH FACADE AND WE WOULD RECOMMEND ON THE WEST FACADE, A VERSION CONSISTENT WITH THE ARTS COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION? COULD WE BE THAT SIMPLE?
>> PERFECT. DENY THE SOUTH AND ACCEPT THE ARTS COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION FOR THE WEST.
I'M GETTING AHEAD NOW. WHEN I GET THOSE, THAT MEANS WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK.
I DIDN'T KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO BE WORKING OVERTIME TONIGHT.
>> I SWEAR. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE CASE SV 24-008 VARIANCE TO THE MASTER SIGN PLAN FOR SOUTHLAKE TOWN SQUARE FOR TOMMY BAHAMA WITH THE CAVEATS OF DENYING THE SOUTH SIDE, REFERENCING STAFF REPORT DATED SEPTEMBER THE 13TH, 2024.
>> ASKING FOR A MOTION TO DENY THE SOUTHSIDE MURAL AND APPROVE THE WEST LOWER PORTION OF THE BUILDING AS APPROVED BY THE ARTS COUNCIL.
>> WE GOT A HEAD NOD. WE HAVE A MOTION. WE HAVE A SECOND.
LET'S GO AHEAD AND VOTE, PLEASE.
NEXT CITY COUNCIL MEETING IS OCTOBER 1ST.
THEN AGAIN, YOU CAN PRESENT OUR RECOMMENDATION, AS WELL AS MAYBE ANOTHER ONE THAT YOU MIGHT WANT THEM TO CONSIDER. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
LAST ITEM ON THE AGENDA THIS EVENING, ITEM NUMBER 8,
[8. Consider: SV24-0010, Variance to the Master Sign Plan for Southlake Town Square for Sweet Paris Creperie & Cafe, located at 228 State Street, Southlake, Texas. ]
WHICH IS A SIGN VARIANCE FOR SWEET PARIS CAFE.>> THIS IS A SIGN VARIANCE REQUEST FOR SWEET PARIS.
IT'S ANOTHER VARIANCE TO THE SOUTHLAKE TOWN SQUARE MASTER SIGN PLAN, AND THEY'RE REQUESTING TWO SIGNS AT 228 STATE STREET.
THIS IS AERIAL VIEW SHOWING THE GENERAL LOCATION.
IT'S THE FORMER ROCKFISH LOCATION RIGHT IN THIS AREA HERE.
THEY'RE SHOWING THE TWO SIGNS THAT THEY'RE REQUESTING VARIANCES FOR ARE E AND D. A AND C WERE APPROVED WITHOUT REQUIRING VARIANCES.
THESE ARE JUST SOME SITE PHOTOS SHOWING THE EAST ELEVATION AND THE WEST ELEVATION.
JUST SOME MORE SITE PHOTOS SHOWING THE BREEZEWAY.
THE FIRST SIGN THAT THEY'RE REQUESTING IS A SIGN THAT'S GOING TO BE ATTACHED TO THE FENCING AROUND THE SEATING AREA.
IT'S JUST NOT A SPECIFICALLY PERMITTED SIGN TYPE, AND THEY'RE CALLING IT A GREEN WALL.
THE HEIGHT AT THIS LOCATION IS THREE FEET, AND THE WIDTH IS 17 FEET.
IT JUST HAS THE LETTERS FOR SWEET PARIS CREPERIE & CAFE.
THE SECOND SIGN IS, AGAIN, THEY'RE CALLING IT A GREEN WALL SIGN.
THE HEIGHT IS 8.6 FEET, THE WIDTH IS 9.3 FEET.
THE LETTER HEIGHT FOR THESE LETTERS HERE, THAT COMPLIES, BUT WE ARE CONSIDERING THE WHISK LOGO, AND THAT'S 44 INCHES.
[00:45:01]
IF THEY ARE PUTTING A TYPICAL SIGN AT THIS LOCATION, IT WOULD BE LIMITED TO 30 INCHES.JUST SHOWING A LITTLE BIT BIGGER VERSION WITH ALL THE DIMENSIONS FOR THE SWEET PARIS CREPERIE & CAFE, THE SIGN THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO PUT ON THE FENCING SURROUNDING THE SEATING AREA.
THIS IS SHOWING THE SIGN IN THE BREEZEWAY LOCATION.
THESE ARE THE SIGNS, A AND B, THAT WERE REFERENCED EARLIER THAT MEET THE TOWN SQUARE MASTER SIGN PLAN.
THEIR PEDESTRIAN BLADE SIGN, WHICH IS APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY.
THEY JUST PROVIDED SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT THESE SIGNS LOOK IN OTHER LOCATIONS.
HOUSTON HAS A SIMILAR SIGN, JUST SHOWING THE SIGN ON THE WALL, AND THEN THIS IS THE SIGN HERE, HOW IT WOULD LOOK ON THE FENCING.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE IN AUSTIN SHOWING THEIR GREEN WALL WITH THE WHISK.
WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TOO SIMILAR THAT WE'VE APPROVED BEFORE.
THE CLOSEST THAT WE HAVE IS A VARIANCE THAT WAS APPROVED FOR CRISP & GREEN THAT WAS THIS AND SIGN WITH THE FORK THAT WAS GOING TO BE A BOXWOOD TYPE SIGN, BUT THAT WAS NEVER INSTALLED.
IT WAS APPROVED, BUT WAS NEVER INSTALLED.
I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
>> I THOUGHT WE HAD ANOTHER RESTAURANT, THE ONE THAT WAS DOWN HERE ACROSS FROM WHISTLE BRITCHES.
DIDN'T THEY HAVE A SIGN OUT FRONT, SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS?
>> YEAH. NO? I MAY BE THINKING WRONG.
I KNOW THEY HAD THE FIRE PIT THING OUT THERE AT ONE TIME.
>> GINA IS GOING TO HAVE A TOUGH TIME WITH THIS ONE. TOO SOON.
>> I DON'T BELIEVE THEY HAD ANY SIGNAGE ON THEIR OUTDOOR SEATING AREA.
I THINK THEY HAD A LITTLE FIRE PIT THERE, BUT THAT WAS IT.
>> OR TROUGH, I GUESS, FIRE TROUGH.
>> THE FIRE THING DID COME THROUGH AS WE NEEDED TO APPROVE IT. I REMEMBER THAT.
FIRST COMMENT I HAVE TO MAKE AS I WENT THROUGH THIS, TELL ME YOU CAUGHT THE NAME OF THE SIGN COMPANY FOR THIS ONE.
GIANT SIGNS. I KNEW YOU'D LIKE THAT ONE.
>> HAS TO BE AN ALL TIME FAVORITE AS SOON AS I SAW IT.
PERSONALLY, I GUESS I DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE BREEZEWAY SIGN.
I THOUGHT THAT'S ACTUALLY A NICE LITTLE EXAMPLE OF MAKING TOWN SQUARE A LITTLE DISTINCT AND UNIQUE.
IT DIDN'T SEEM INTRUSIVE. AGAIN, WE ALL KNOW WITH THE WAY THE TREES ARE THERE, IT'S HARD TO SEE THE SIGNS.
MY ONLY COMMENT, AND I KNOW THE LETTER HEIGHT ON THAT SIGN D ISN'T A VARIANCE, BUT THE FACT THE GREEN WALL IS, I WONDERED IF THERE WAS A WAY THE APPLICANT WOULD BE WILLING TO, IF THEY WERE GRANTED THE GREEN WALL, SHOW A VERSION WITH THE SIGN LETTERS A LITTLE SMALLER.
WE'RE HORSE TRADING HERE IN TERMS OF WILLINGNESS TO MAYBE APPROVE A GREEN WALL VARIANCE IF MAYBE THE SIGN LETTERS WERE A LITTLE SMALLER BECAUSE THAT'S A VERY VISIBLE LOCATION.
IT'S IN YOUR FACE, WHICH I THINK CAN BE MAYBE DONE IN A TASTEFUL WAY, BUT THOSE LETTERS ARE PRETTY BIG.
>> WELL, IT'S LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING WITH THE CAR WASH. THAT'S A THREE-WAY STOP RIGHT THERE AND A LOT OF PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC, SO IT'S NOT LIKE IT REALLY HAS TO BE SOMETHING YOU CAN SEE DOING 60 MILES AN HOUR DOWN THE INTERSTATE.
>> IS THAT ONE D OR IS THAT ONE E?
>> I AGREE WITH YOU ON BOTH ENDS OF THAT BEING SMALLER AND THE WALL.
THERE'S ALSO A SWEET PARIS AT COLLEGE STATION THAT I VISIT EVERY SINGLE TIME.
BUT IT'S AN ATTRACTION TO HAVE THAT LITTLE WALL WHERE PEOPLE CAN TAKE SELFIES AND WHAT HAVE YOU, AND SO IT ACTUALLY MIGHT BE NICE.
>> I THOUGHT THE THOUGHT OF A WALL,
[00:50:01]
IT'S NOT LIKE WE SHOULD JUST HAVE THE METAL RAILING THAT'S THERE.IT COULD PROBABLY BE DRESSED UP A LITTLE BIT, BUT JUST MAYBE A LITTLE LESS BILLBOARD-ISH.
I WAS JUST BEING THE BIGGER SIDEWALK.
>> I THOUGHT THAT ADDED A NICE LITTLE BIT OF CHARACTER TO THEM.
>> I WONDER TOO IF THEY COULDN'T ADD BECAUSE, YOU JUST MADE ME THINK ABOUT THIS, I THINK IT WAS IN AUSTIN, FLOWER CHILD OR SOMETHING, BUT COULD THEY ADD SOUTHLAKE BELOW THAT? THEN IT COULD BE DIFFERENT ONES IN DIFFERENT CITIES.
THAT MIGHT BE A THOUGHT TOO, IF YOU COULD CONSIDER THAT.
>> WE'LL CALL THE APPLICANT UP HERE IN A SECOND.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? DO YOU MIND? YOU MADE IT THIS LONG.
NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
YOU'VE HEARD SOME OF THE COMMENTS.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S REALLY ANY FEEDBACK ON SIGN D. I DON'T THINK CONCEPTUALLY THERE'S MUCH ISSUE BETWEEN THE LETTER HEIGHT THAN MAYBE A SOUTHLAKE NAME TO SEE IF THAT COULD BE HORSE TRADED FOR AN APPROVAL OF THE GREEN WALL.
>> MIKE. I'M HERE TODAY WITH GIANT SIGN, 3629 WEEBURN DRIVE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
THE MAIN REASON WHY THEY DECIDED TO DO THIS, OTHER THAN THEY HAVE DONE IT IN OTHER LOCATIONS IS, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE SIGN BANNER IS BLOCKED ALMOST ENTIRELY BY THE TREES.
>> BEEN GOING TO THAT PLACE FOR 20 YEARS. I'M WITH YOU.
>> THEY WANTED SOME VISIBILITY ON THE STREET.
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE CLIENT, BUT I'M SURE ANY REPRESENTATION ON THAT SIGN D PATIO WOULD BE WELCOMED.
>> WOULD YOU BE WILLING FOR COUNCIL TO SHOW AN ALTERNATE VERSION WHERE, EVEN THOUGH THE LETTER HEIGHT IS NOT A VARIANCE, BUT SHOW THEM JUST A LITTLE BIT SMALLER?
I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'D BE AMENABLE TO INCLUDING THE WORD SOUTHLAKE ON THERE, BUT MAYBE AT LEAST JUST ASK.
>> I CAN DEFINITELY PASS THAT ALONG AND DO A RENDERING OF THAT AS WELL.
MAY I CLARIFY IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT ON THE PATIO OR ON THE BREEZEWAY SIDE?
>> I THINK IT'S JUST THE PATIO, OR BREEZEWAY.
>> I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS THE WORD SOUTHLAKE.
>> I THINK IT WOULD LOOK GOOD WHERE YOU WERE SAYING THEY TAKE PHOTOS, ON THAT GREENERY.
>> NOT ON THE OTHER ONE, IS THAT RIGHT?
>> THE ONE WITH A LITTLE BEATER WHISK THING.
>> THE WHISK IS ACTUALLY THEIR ICONIC LOGO PORTION ON THERE.
>> I THINK MAYBE THE THOUGHT IS ON THE WHISK ONE, IF THE WORD, AT THE VERY BOTTOM OF THE SIGN, SOUTHLAKE, COULD BE PUT INTO THERE.
MAYBE THAT'S THE SOUTHLAKE REFERENCE.
THEN ON SIGN D, THE LETTER HEIGHT, A LITTLE SMALLER.
THEN MAYBE THAT VERSION WOULD BE MORE APT TO BE APPROVED BY COUNCIL TO GET YOUR GREEN WALL.
>> STAFF, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I GUESS SOUTHLAKE ON SING E AND ON SIGN D A VERSION WITH A LITTLE BIT SMALLER LETTER HEIGHT?
>> COMMISSIONER PHALEN SAYS NO.
>> I KNOW, BUT SHE HANGS OUT AT THE FIREPLACE RESTAURANT.
>> DON'T KNOCK TRUFIRE. IT'S ALMOST 9:00 PM.
I'M GOING TO GO WITH COMMISSIONER PHALEN.
ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE APPLICANT?
>> THANK YOU FOR HANGING OUT THIS LONG.
YOU'RE EARNING IT TONIGHT FOR GIANT SIGNS.
I THINK WE'RE GOOD TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION.
>> MR. CHAIRMAN, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE CASE SV 24-0010, VARIANCE TO THE MASTER SIGN PLAN FOR SOUTHLAKE TOWN SQUARE FOR SWEET PARIS CREPERIE & CAFE, AND ACCEPTING SIGN E AS PRESENTED AND SHOWING THE APPLICANT'S WILLINGNESS TO ADD SOUTHLAKE ONTO THE SIGN, AND THEN ON SIGN D, WE'LL NEED TO HAVE SMALLER LETTER SIZE ON THAT.
THE APPLICANT CAN PRESENT THE SMALLER LETTER SIZE TO COUNCIL.
>> STAFF, DOES THAT SOUND OKAY? I'M GETTING HEAD NODS.
>> THAT IS REFERENCING STAFF REPORT DATED SEPTEMBER THE 13TH, 2024.
>> COMMISSIONER PHALEN PROUDLY SECONDS THAT MOTION.
LET'S GO AHEAD AND TAKE A VOTE, PLEASE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR STICKING AROUND THIS LONG.
AT 8:53 PM, WE ARE ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.