Sep 03, 2026 Sign Board

AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING. AND FOR ANYONE WHO'D LIKE TO STICK AROUND, I WILL BE GAVELING IN OUR SIGN BOARD MEETING.

[1. Call to Order. ]

[00:00:10]

I DON'T THERE'S NO CHAIRMAN'S COMMENTS. ARE THERE ANY ADMINISTRATIVE COMMENTS I'M GOING TO ASSUME NO, OTHERWISE DIRECTOR KILLOUGH WILL INTERJECT. LET'S GO TO ITEM NUMBER 5 ON OUR AGENDA.

[5. Consider: Approving the minutes from the August 20, 2026, Sign Board Meeting. ]

ANY QUESTIONS COMMENTS ON THOSE MINUTES BEFORE WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION? I HAVE A COMMENT. I'M LISTED AS BOTH PRESENT AND ABSENT AND I BELIEVE I WAS PRESENT.

PRETTY GOOD CATCH. I'LL PROBABLY FIND THAT OUT ON VIDEO SO WE CAN DULY NOTED INVESTIGATE AND CLARIFY.

I WAS THE ABSENT. ON THE, WAS IT THE 20TH? I WAS ABSENT, RIGHT.

OKAY. I WAS JUST GOING TO REMARK THAT MAYBE SHE WAS IN A QUANTUM STATE WHERE SHE'S BOTH PRESENT AND ABSENT AT THE SAME TIME.

I WAS GOING TO SAY I TECHNICALLY, I FIGURED THERE'D BE A TECHNICAL ANSWER TO THAT, BUT PROBABLY NOT IN THIS CASE.

BUT TECHNICALLY TRUE. BUT WE WILL AND DAVID, MAYBE YOU CAN EVEN JUST NOTE FOR STAFF TO JUST DOUBLE CHECK. IF YOU CROSS-REFERENCE THE P&Z MEETING IT DOES HAVE STACY AS THE ONE THAT'S ABSENT.

COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL, PARDON ME. YES, SHE WAS PRESENT.

SHE WAS NOT. GOOD CATCH, EVERYONE. ALL GOOD. THAT'S MY EAGLE EYES ON THIS.

OKAY, WELL. WE'LL ENTERTAIN. I THINK WE'D EVER HAVE ANYTHING ON A MEETING MINUTES, DID YOU? WELL, EVERY NOW AND THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT TO CHECK YOUR VOTES AND, YOU KNOW, CHECK YOUR ATTENDANCE AND QUANTUM STATE BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW. SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE I'M PRESENT BUT NOT PRESENT.

SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT. OKAY. WE'RE ALL GOOD.

SO I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MINUTES OF OUR AUGUST 20TH, 2026 MEETING.

WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MEMBERS PRESENT, MEMBERS ABSENCE.

MEMBERS LAURA GUNTER WAS PRESENT, AND MEMBER STACEY DRISCOLL WAS ABSENT.

GOOD CLARIFICATION. GOOD MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT. ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO AHEAD AND VOTE.

PASSES 5-0. THANK YOU EVERYBODY. NOW WE'LL GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 6, WHICH IS OUR ONLY ITEM ON THE AGENDA THIS EVENING.

[6. Discuss: MSP26-0004, Master Sign Plan for Shivers’ Farm, located at 1900 N. White Chapel Boulevard. ]

AND IF YOU'RE WATCHING AT HOME, GOD BLESS YOU.

IT'S JUST A DISCUSSION OF MSP26-0004, MASTER SIGN PLAN FOR SHIVERS' FARM.

I DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT THERE WILL BE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS PUT FORWARD TO CITY COUNCIL THIS EVENING.

MORE OF AN OPEN DISCUSSION THAT WE WILL AND HOPEFULLY THE APPLICANT CAN HEAR ME.

WE'LL KIND OF COVER THIS. WE'LL SEE HOW DETAILED IT GETS, BUT AT A MINIMUM, JUST MOSTLY HIGH-LEVEL THEMATIC.

AND IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE COMPREHENSIVE. THERE COULD BE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS LATER IN THE PROCESS, BUT WE'LL TRY TO MAKE AS MANY OF THEM NOW. AND I AM NOTING FOR THE RECORD THAT OUR 20 PLUS YEAR SIGN GURU, COMMISSIONER, IS NOT HERE THIS EVENING. COMMISSIONER DR.

SPRINGER, WHO LOVES SIGN CASES. SO WHENEVER THIS COMES BACK, HE COULD RESERVE THE RIGHT TO COMMENT FURTHER, BUT WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO READ HIS MIND HERE AND GIVE YOU FEEDBACK.

SO WITH THAT, WE'LL GO ENTERTAIN THE STAFF REPORT.

YES, THANK YOU. BEFORE I GET INTO THIS, THIS SPECIFIC MASTER SIGN PLAN.

I JUST WANT TO STEP BACK A MINUTE AND JUST TALK ABOUT WHY WE HAVE MASTER SIGN PLANS.

I'LL GO OVER THIS REALLY, REALLY QUICK, BUT WE KIND OF THINK ABOUT SIGNS AS KIND OF BEING THE CHERRY ON TOP OF A DEVELOPMENT.

THEY'RE OFTEN ONE OF THE FINAL ELEMENTS THAT ARE ADDED, BUT THEY CAN HAVE AN OUTSIZED IMPACT ON THE FINISHED DEVELOPMENT, ON HOW IT LOOKS, HOW IT FEELS, HOW IT'S EXPERIENCED.

SO, WITH ALL THAT IN MIND, WE HAVE THIS PROVISION FOR THESE MASTER SIGN PLANS.

AND I WON'T GO THROUGH EACH OF THESE. THESE ARE DETAILED IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.

THESE ARE TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM THE ORDINANCE. BUT THE PURPOSE OF THESE MASTER SIGN PLANS IS TO ALLOW FOR DEVELOPMENTS, PARTICULARLY LARGER DEVELOPMENTS SUCH AS THIS ONE TO DESIGN A MASTER SIGN PLAN WITH FLEXIBILITY AND CREATIVITY TO ENSURE THAT THE SIGNAGE IS COORDINATED.

IT'S COMPATIBLE WITH THE ARCHITECTURE AND THE SITE DESIGN, AND THEN IT CONTRIBUTES POSITIVELY TO THE OVERALL CHARACTER AND PLACEMAKING OF THE DEVELOPMENT. SO THERE ARE SOME DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT ARE OUTLINED IN THE SIGN ORDINANCE.

THESE ARE JUST GUIDELINES. THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT STRICT REGULATIONS, BUT THE THINGS THAT THE SIGN BOARD AND CITY COUNCIL AND THE APPLICANTS

[00:05:05]

ARE THEY INTEGRATED WITH THE BUILDING ARCHITECTURE? IS THE PLACEMENT SCALE AND APPEARANCE ALL COORDINATED? REGARDING COLOR, YOU WANT TO AVOID USING TOO MANY COLORS BUT ALSO CONSIDERING USING CONTRASTING COLORS FOR LEGIBILITY.

ARE THE MATERIALS COMPATIBLE AND APPROPRIATE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT? SIGN LEGIBILITY, LOOKING AT CONCISE MESSAGING UTILIZING SYMBOLS AND LOGOS, CONSIDERING SIGN ILLUMINATION. YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE A CONCEALED RACEWAYS ANY KIND OF ELECTRICAL BOXES, YOU WANT THOSE CONCEALED. IN TERMS OF MONUMENT SIGNS, GENERALLY WANT LIMITED MONUMENT SIGNS WITH UNIFORM TENANT PANELS AND YOU WANT THOSE SIGNS TO BE A, COORDINATED AND DESIGN AND INTEGRATED INTO THE LANDSCAPING.

FOR TENANT SIGNS. AGAIN, WANTING THEM TO BE CONSISTENT, COORDINATED, AND TO COMPLEMENT THE OVERALL CENTER.

AND WHEN YOU HAVE MULTIPLE MULTI-STORY BUILDINGS LOOKING AT UTILIZING MONUMENT SIGNS, LIMITING ATTACHED SIGNS TO MAJOR TENANTS, AND HAVING APPROPRIATELY SCALED SIGNS ON THESE MULTI-STORY BUILDINGS.

SO, GETTING INTO THIS SPECIFIC ONE HERE, THIS IS THE AERIAL VIEW OF THE DEVELOPMENT.

AND THIS GRAPHIC HERE SHOWS WHERE THEY'RE PROPOSING TO PLACE DEVELOPMENT SIGNS AND FEATURES.

THEY ARE PROPOSING FOR MONUMENT SIGNS. THOSE ARE MARKED AS MS-1 AND MS-2.

THEY ALSO HAVE SOME WAYFINDING SIGNS IDENTIFIED.

THERE'S THREE OF THOSE. AND THOSE ARE IDENTIFIED AS WS-1.

THEY'RE PROPOSING STRING LIGHTING. THERE'S THREE LOCATIONS THAT THEY'RE IDENTIFYING FOR STRING LIGHTING. THOSE ARE SL-1.

AND THEY'RE PROPOSING FOR DEVELOPMENT WIDE WALL MURALS.

THOSE ARE INDICATED AS WM-1. AND THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING SOME ART SCULPTURES.

THERE'S TWO OF THOSE. AND THOSE ARE DESIGNATED AS A S-1.

THEY DO HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL PLACEMAKING ELEMENTS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING THAT THEY'VE LABELED AS DISCOVERABLE MOMENTS AND SIDEWALK ENGRAVED BANDS.

SO GOING THROUGH THE MONUMENT SIGNS AGAIN, THERE'S THREE OF THESE MS-1 TYPE MONUMENT SIGN.

THIS IS JUST A GENERAL VIEW OF WHAT THIS RENDERING, OF WHAT THIS TYPE OF SIGN WOULD LOOK LIKE.

AND THE THREE LOCATIONS. AND THIS IS THE ONE LARGER MONUMENT SIGN SHOWING THE LOCATION FOR THIS PARTICULAR SIGN THE RENDERING.

AND THEN THEY HAVE THREE WAYFINDING SIGNS PROPOSED.

YOU CAN SEE THAT THE STYLE THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING HERE IN THE RENDERING.

AND STRING LIGHTS THEY HAVE THREE LOCATIONS PROPOSED FOR THE STRING LIGHTS.

OUR CURRENT SIGN ORDINANCE DOES ALLOW FOR STRING LIGHTING.

THERE IS A PROVISION FOR THAT. SO, THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE ORDINANCE.

THEY ARE ALSO PROPOSING SOME WALL MURALS. THESE WOULD GENERALLY HAVE LIKE A NONCOMMERCIAL MESSAGE.

AND THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL ON THE FOLLOWING SLIDES, BUT THERE'S FOUR LOCATIONS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING FOR THESE DEVELOPMENT WIDE WALL MURALS.

THIS IS KIND OF THE ESTHETIC THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING FOR THESE WALL MURALS.

AND THEN THEY ALSO HAVE SOME PROPOSED CONTENT SHOWING SOME DESIGN OPTIONS.

AND THIS IS ONE OF THE MURAL LOCATIONS. THEY'RE SHOWING A RENDERING THERE AND WHAT THAT COULD POTENTIALLY LOOK LIKE.

THIS IS BUILDING 700, ANOTHER POTENTIAL MURAL LOCATION.

AND BUILDING 500 WITH ANOTHER MURAL LOCATION.

AND BUILDING 600 WITH ANOTHER POTENTIAL MURAL LOCATION.

NOW WHEN WE GET INTO THESE DISCOVERABLE MOMENTS, I JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT, LIKE, THINGS LIKE THIS HELP WITH THE PLACEMAKING SIDE OF THINGS.

SO, ALL OF THESE KINDS OF NONCOMMERCIAL MESSAGING KIND OF ENCOURAGE EXPLORATION.

THEY ENCOURAGE PEDESTRIANS TO WALK AROUND, TAKE A LOOK AROUND THE CORNER, SEE WHAT ELSE THEY MIGHT FIND.

IT HELPS TO BUILD A DISTINCTIVE IDENTITY FOR A DEVELOPMENT, ENCOURAGES REPEAT VISITS.

SO, ALL OF THESE THINGS KIND OF CONTRIBUTE TO THAT TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT. SO, THIS IS A NEW THING. WE HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN THIS BEFORE, BUT THAT'S, THIS KIND OF THING ADDS HELPS TO ADD TO THE PLACEMAKING.

THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING A COUPLE OF SCULPTURES.

THERE'S TWO LOCATIONS. THIS IS OPTION ONE THAT THEY'RE SHOWING FOR ONE OF THE SCULPTURES.

AND THEN THEY HAVE OPTION TWO WITH A TRIO OF BUNNIES.

AND THEY, THE SECOND LOCATION, THEY HAVE KIND OF AN ART BENCH DESIGN POTENTIAL.

AND THE SECOND OPTION FOR THIS ONE IS A LINE DRAWING SCULPTURE.

THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING THESE SIDEWALK BANDS. THESE ARE INTEGRATED INTO THE SIDEWALK.

THEY HAVE VARIOUS QUOTES. THESE WOULD BE THE QUOTES WOULD BE IDENTIFIED AT A LATER TIME BUT INTEGRATING THE SIDEWALK WITH LITTLE LIKE INSPIRATIONAL QUOTES OR FAMOUS

[00:10:07]

AND NOW GETTING INTO THE MORE COMMERCIAL SIGNS, THE SPECIFIC TENANT SIGNS THEY ARE PROPOSING, YOU CAN SEE HERE ON THE LEFT, THERE'S, THERE'S REQUIRED SIGNS, WHICH WOULD BE LIKE A PRIMARY SIGN, WHICH IS WHAT WE WOULD TYPICALLY CALL AN ATTACHED SIGN. THEY'RE ALSO REQUIRING SECONDARY SIGNS.

AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE A BLADE SIGN, THE ADDRESS AND HOURS.

AND THEN FOR RESTAURANTS, THEY'RE ALSO REQUIRING DINING ZONE CANOPY SIGNAGE.

THEY ALSO HAVE OPTIONAL SIGNS. THESE WOULD BE AWNING, AWNINGS WITH SIGNS WALL MOUNTED PLAQUES, WINDOW SIGNS AND GRAPHICS, POTENTIAL FOR TENANT MURALS AND GRAPHICS, ENTRY THRESHOLD SIGNAGE FOR PARTICULAR FOR CERTAIN TENANTS, AND SIDEWALK SIGNS. THESE ARE JUST SOME RENDERINGS SHOWING THE POTENTIAL HOW THIS COULD ALL COME TOGETHER.

THEY ARE PROPOSING SIGNS FOR UPPER STORY TENANTS.

SO I HAVE THIS KIND OF LAID OUT HOW IT'S ORGANIZED IN THE PACKET THAT YOU RECEIVED.

SO FIRST YEAR IS GOING UNDER THE SECONDARY SIGNAGE, A BLADE SIGNS.

THE BLADE SIGNS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING ARE HAVING AT LEAST ONE DOUBLE FACING HANGING SIGN PER CUSTOMER ENTRANCE, SO FOR EVERY TENANT, AND THEN THESE WOULD NOT EXCEED TEN SQUARE FEET.

THEY'RE ALSO REQUIRING A ADDRESS AND OUR SIGNAGE, SO THESE NUMBERS WOULD BE DIMENSIONAL METAL OR INDIVIDUAL LETTERS.

THE ADDRESS NUMERALS WILL NEED TO BE SIX INCHES IN HEIGHT AND FLUSH TO THE ARCHITECTURE.

AND THEN FOR THE DINING ZONE CANOPY SIGNS FOR RESTAURANTS OR AWNING PRINTED SIGNS.

THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, THE TYPICAL SIGNS THAT YOU'D SEE IN AREAS LIKE SUCH AS TOWN SQUARE WHERE WE HAVE THE SIGNS ON THE AWNINGS.

AGAIN, JUST GOING OVER THE WINDOW SIGNAGE AND GRAPHICS.

THIS IS AN OPTION THAT TENANTS COULD UTILIZE.

THERE IS ALSO AN OPTION IN THERE FOR TENANT MURALS AND GRAPHICS.

AND FOR THE MURALS. THE MURALS ARE ENCOURAGED FOR TENANTS ON IN CORNER LOCATIONS WHERE PEDESTRIANS OFTEN WALK.

AND THESE ELEMENTS IF THEY'RE LARGER THAN A PRIMARY IDENTITY SIGN SHOULD INCLUDE THE TENANT LOGO OR NAME, BUT RATHER ADD AN ARTISTIC LAYER. THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING THESE APPLIED THE OPTIONAL APPLIED WALL SIGNS.

SO THESE WOULD BE LIKE CAST OR BUILT UP METAL STONE OR TILE GENERALLY ADJACENT TO ENTRY DOORS, AND THEY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO CONTAIN TAGLINES, SLOGANS, OR PRODUCT DESCRIPTIONS.

ANOTHER OPTIONAL SIGN TYPE IS THESE ENTRY THRESHOLD SIGNS, AND THESE ARE FOR TENANTS WITH A RECESSED ENTRANCE.

THESE WOULD ONLY BE ALLOWED TO BE HARD PAVING DESIGNS.

SO NATURAL STONE OR MOSAIC TILE, A CAST STONE.

OR WITH POTENTIALLY WITH RECESSED ORNAMENTAL METAL, MOSAIC TILE OR STONE LETTERS.

AND THEN GOING BACK TO THE TOP FOR REQUIRED SIGNAGE, THE PRIMARY SIGNAGE, WHICH IS WHAT WE TYPICALLY CALL AN ATTACHED SIGN FOR A FRONT ELEVATION IT COULD BE ATTACHED TO THE STOREFRONT FACADE OR CANOPY MOUNTED.

THE MAXIMUM AREA WOULD BE 1.5FT² PER LINEAR FOOT OF FRONTAGE.

AND THE MAXIMUM WIDTH WOULD BE 75% OF THE LEASE SPACE.

FOR SECONDARY AND BACK STORE ELEVATIONS, IT WOULD BE 80% OF THE TOTAL ALLOWABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT IS ALLOWED ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING.

AND THEN FOR THE LETTER HEIGHTS, THEY HAVE A BROKEN DOWN BY SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE TENANT.

SO, 0 TO 2,499FT², THEY'D BE ALLOWED 24IN LETTERS.

FROM 2,500 TO 4,999FT² THEY'D BE ALLOWED 30-INCH LETTERS.

AND FOR 5,000FT² AND LARGER, THEY'D BE ALLOWED 36-INCH LETTERS.

AND THEY HAVE QUITE A BIT OF A COMPREHENSIVE DESCRIPTION OF ALL THE ILLUMINATION TYPES AND STANDARDS FOR ILLUMINATION, BUT JUST AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL, THEY'RE PROPOSING INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTERS, HALO LIGHTING, EXTERNAL ILLUMINATION, OPEN CHANNEL LETTERS WITH LINEAR LIGHTING, DIGITAL SCREENS, ARRAYS AND COLOR ADJUSTMENT.

SO, THIS IS, THE DESCRIPTION THAT THEY HAVE THERE IS LED FEATURES TO ALLOW FOR ADJUSTMENT OF COLOR AND MESSAGING, BUT NO ANIMATED OR FLASHING READER BOARDS. SO I KNOW THAT WAS A REALLY QUICK, VERY HIGH-LEVEL OVERVIEW, BUT WE'RE JUST SEEKING FEEDBACK. SOME INITIAL FEEDBACK, INITIAL IMPRESSIONS.

THE APPLICANTS ARE HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AS WELL.

BUT OPEN ANY QUESTIONS. MAYBE ONE QUESTION FOR ME.

SO, SOME OF THESE ARE FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD IN TERMS OF KIND OF A REQUEST.

YOU KNOW, A BLADE SIGN, A LETTER HEIGHT, ALL THAT, YOU KNOW, OKAY, WE CAN KIND OF GET OUR HANDS AND GET ADVICE AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE TALK ABOUT THAT. ON SOME OF THE MURALS OR ARTWORK.

[00:15:05]

YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IT ALSO DEPENDS ON SIGNBOARDS, COMFORT LEVEL WITH THE DIFFERENT THINGS.

LIKE FOR CERTAIN THINGS, LIKE WHERE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SIDEWALK BANS WHERE IT'S A NONCOMMERCIAL MESSAGE.

I THINK OUR PREFERENCE WOULD BE FOR IT TO BE MORE OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. I THINK, I THINK, I MEAN, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT, BUT MY GUESS IS THERE MAY BE COMFORT WITH THAT.

I JUST WASN'T SURE IF THAT WAS HOPEFULLY IF THAT'S PERMISSIBLE, WHICH IF IT IS, WE CAN KICK THAT AROUND.

YEAH. YEAH. IT COULD BE WRITTEN INTO THE IT COULD BE WRITTEN IN SUCH A WAY.

AND THE SAME WITH THESE DISCOVERABLE MOMENTS THAT DON'T HAVE A COMMERCIAL MESSAGE, THAT SORT OF THING.

IN TERMS OF MURALS, A LOT OF OUR MURALS HAVE BEEN IN TOWN SQUARE, WHICH THEN THEY GO TO THE ART COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL.

YEAH. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING OF AS WELL. IS THAT OKAY? THAT GOES TO, I MEAN, AND I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT'S WITHIN OUR PURVIEW WHERE WE COULD SAY, HEY, IF IT'S WE'RE OKAY WITH MURAL IN THIS SPOT SO LONG AS IT GOES THROUGH ARTS COUNCIL AND GETS THEIR BLESSING AND STAFF'S BLESSING.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO SEE US AGAIN. I MEAN, IS THAT.

THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING AS YOUR AS YOUR RECOMMENDATION IS MADE ON DEVELOPMENT OF THIS, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT YOU COULD OUTLINE WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S CERTAIN TYPES OF ELEMENTS THAT GO MORE FROM A, YOU KNOW, MURALS THAT GO FROM MORE OF A COMMERCIAL TYPE MURAL MESSAGE TO A MORE ARTISTIC, LESS COMMERCIAL. THAT'S PROBABLY FEEDBACK WE'D GIVE THEM.

YEAH, THAT, THESE ITEMS GO TO, THEY COULD REQUIRE THEY GO TO THE ARTS COUNCIL FIRST AND GET A RECOMMENDATION THAT'S BROUGHT TO THE SIGN BOARD AND THEN MOVE THROUGH TO COUNCIL OR WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO BYPASS ON BOARD'S AUTHORITY ON THAT, GO TO ARTS COUNCIL, THEN TO CITY COUNCIL.

THAT'S THINGS THAT YOU COULD CONSIDER IN YOUR RECOMMENDATION OF THIS THIS PACKAGE.

AND YOU CAN KIND OF DRAW THE BOUNDARIES OF WHERE YOU THINK THOSE.

HAVE SOME LATITUDE. WOULD LIE. YEAH. OKAY. AS AN EXAMPLE, THERE'S SOME MURALS IN TOWN SQUARE.

IF THEY'RE OVER ENTRYWAYS, NONCOMMERCIAL. THE TOWN SQUARE ORDINANCE ALLOWS BY RIGHT.

THE OTHERS, IF THEY'RE OVER A CERTAIN SIZE AND AREA, REQUIRE SIGN BOARD, THEN COUNCIL APPROVAL.

AND WHERE SOME OF OUR ART COUNCILS GUIDANCE HAVE HAS BEEN SOUGHT, IT'S BEEN SOMETIMES SOUGHT THROUGH RECOMMENDATION OR REQUEST OF THE CITY COUNCIL OR EVEN THE SIGN BOARD.

AND IN SOME CASES WHERE WE FELT INITIALLY THAT SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THE ARTISTIC CHARACTERISTICS OF SOMETHING WAS SOMEWHAT COMPLEX. WE'VE ASKED THEM TO GO TO SIGN BOARD FIRST BEFORE COMING TO SIGN BOARD, BUT, IT'S ALL BEEN, FOR THE MOST PART IN THOSE AREAS, ADMINISTRATIVELY GUIDED AS TO WHERE THOSE PATHS ARE OR BY RECOMMENDATION OF THE SIGN BOARD OR COUNCIL. OKAY. WELL, IT'S ALL VERY BEAUTIFUL.

BUT THE MURALS THAT'S MY CONCERN IS THE MURALS.

AND I KNOW I WOULD WANT SOMETHING THAT TALKS ABOUT, I GUESS NONCOMMERCIAL MIGHT BE THE MAGIC LANGUAGE, BUT I NOTICED ON ONE OF THE SLIDES IT SAYS THAT IT QUOTE SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR TENANT OR LOGO NAME OR SOMETHING.

AND SO SHOULD TO ME IS OPTIONAL. THAT'S SHOULD VERSUS SHALL.

AND SO, I, MY RESERVATION IS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS, LOOKING AT BEAUTIFUL COLORS AND PICTURES AND MAYBE A FEW LITTLE CUTE SAYINGS, BUT WHERE DOES IT TIP OVER TO BECOMING A BILLBOARD AND.

WE'LL GET OVER THAT. IT'S JUST I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT PROCESS WISE.

YEAH. THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO DO THAT. WE WILL GET WE WILL GET.

BUT IF THAT'S IN PLACE, THEN YEAH, THEN IT SHOULD BE SIMPLISTIC NOT TO HAVE A LOT OF.

YEAH. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE DIGITAL SCREEN ARRAYS AND COLOR ADJUSTMENT.

WE TALKED THERE ABOUT ANIMATED AND FLASHING READER BOARDS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON THE BUILDING EXTERIOR.

DOES THIS MEAN THAT THEY CANNOT PUT A VIDEO SCREEN INSIDE OF A WINDOW TO DISPLAY THEIR PRODUCTS? WELL, TYPICALLY WE REQUIRE LIKE THAT WOULD BE COUNT AS WINDOW SIGNAGE.

[00:20:01]

BUT IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A WINDOW SIGN, THEN IT'S A WINDOW SIGN. AND THEN IT WOULD HAVE TO BE WITHIN THAT 25% THAT THEY'RE REQUIRING FOR.

POINT BEING, I THINK YOU'RE SAYING IF THEY DID THAT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME IN AND GET APPROVAL TO DO THAT.

THEY'RE NOT GETTING PERMISSION TO DO THAT WITHIN THIS MASTER SIGN PLAN.

OKAY, I'M JUST REFLECTING ON PLACES I'VE BEEN AROUND THE WORLD, AND I'M STARTING TO SEE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE USING VIDEO DISPLAYS TO DRAW PEOPLE INTO THEIR STORES. I THINK IT'S THE T-MOBILE ONE OVER THERE, RIGHT ACROSS.

THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF IT. THAT WAS ONE THAT WE HAD WHERE THEY HAD, YEAH.

SO, IF THAT'S A GROWING TREND, THEN HOW DO WE APPROACH, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY A VIDEO SCREEN IN A WINDOW AS A MEANS OF DISPLAYING ANYTHING THAT WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER OR NO INPUT ON REALLY? YEAH. IT COULD BE ANYTHING. YEAH. IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ADDRESS.

THE SIGN ORDINANCE REALLY MAKE ANY SENSE. I GUESS.

I GUESS THE COMFORT HERE IS THAT THEY'RE NOT ASKING FOR THAT.

ANY RELIEF BEYOND OR ANY, ANY ADDITIONAL RELIEF BEYOND OUR ORDINANCE, WHICH IS TEN FEET OR GREATER FROM THE.

OKAY. OKAY. MAYBE WHAT I THOUGHT WE WOULD DO.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? OKAY.

MAYBE WHAT I THOUGHT WE'D DO ON THIS ONE. TYPICALLY, WE DELIBERATE AND THEN BRING THE APPLICANT UP? WHY DON'T WE JUST HAVE THE APPLICANT COME UP? IF YOU GUYS DON'T MIND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.

AND THEN IF YOU DON'T MIND, WHATEVER THE MOST CONVENIENT WAY POSSIBLE, JUST BRING A PEN AND PAPER AND TAKE LOTS OF NOTES.

ALTHOUGH DENNIS, I'M PRETTY SURE FOR MASOCHISTIC REASONS, THESE MEETINGS ARE RECORDED, RIGHT? THAT IS CORRECT. AND THEY'RE TYPICALLY WATCH ALL THIS AGAIN IF YOU REALLY WANT.

YOU CAN WATCH IT INSTEAD OF GOING THE MOVIE FRIDAY NIGHT.

YOU CAN WATCH IT. IN THE SPIRIT OF MAKING SURE THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS, LET'S MEMORIALIZE AT ALL.

SO GO AHEAD AND NAME AND ADDRESS. SORRY. BLAKE BICKMORE WITH TRADEMARK.

1701 RIVER RUN, FORT WORTH, TEXAS. OKAY. ALEC BRADLEY, TRADEMARK, 7138 VIVIAN AVENUE, DALLAS, TEXAS. OKAY MAYBE WHAT I THOUGHT WE'D DO IS JUST, YOU KNOW, TAKE IT FROM KIND OF THE BEGINNING OF THEIR REPORT AND JUST GO THROUGH AND TALK ABOUT JUST ANYTHING THAT PEOPLE THAT STRIKE MAYBE JUST LET'S JUST TRY TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK.

AND AGAIN, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE EVERYBODY PERFECTLY HAPPY.

SO MAYBE YOU CAN JUST KIND OF HEAR, IS IT ONE PERSON HAS AN ISSUE WITH IT? OR IS IT LIKE FIVE? OR HISTORICALLY WE HAD ISSUES.

I MEAN, I APPRECIATE GENERALLY, I MEAN, WE CAN SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK, BUT I THINK IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'VE DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB WITH THIS.

WE APPRECIATE YOU LOOKING AT THE TOWN SQUARE, SOUTHLAKE TOWN SQUARE MASTER SIGN PLAN AS KIND OF GUIDANCE AND KIND OF A FOUNDATION FOR WHAT YOU'RE REQUESTING. SO MAYBE WE'LL JUST GO THROUGH THAT AND WE'LL JUST KIND OF SEE WHAT THE FEEDBACK IS AND GO FROM THERE.

AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, THIS WON'T BE EVERYTHING, WE MIGHT THINK SOMETHING AT THE NEXT STEP, BUT HOPEFULLY IT'S MOST OF IT.

ANY ISSUES? I DIDN'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH MONUMENT SIGNS OR WAYFINDING.

ANYBODY HAVE ANY ISSUES THERE WITH ANYTHING? OKAY.

OR STRING LIGHTING. I MEAN I DIDN'T REALLY HAVE AN ISSUE.

I DID HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT. IT WAS REALLY FOR STAFF, BUT I DIDN'T.

IS IT, IS THERE, IS THERE SOMETHING IN PLACE TO LIKE IT'S, THEY'RE NOT AS SUBSTANTIAL AS, SAY, STREET LIGHTING. SO, IS THERE SOMETHING IN PLACE TO REGULATE HOW OFTEN THOSE ARE REPLACED OR REPAIRED WHEN THERE'S WIND OR HAIL OR EXCESS HEAT OR WHATEVER? IS THERE ANY GUIDANCE AROUND LIKE WHAT THAT WILL LOOK LIKE? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WATTAGE MAINTENANCE, I MEAN, JUST YEAH.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE PICKED THE ACTUAL SPEC FOR THAT LIGHT YET.

I SAW YOU HAD SOME PICTURES IN HERE, SO I GUESS IT WOULD LOOK KIND OF LIKE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.

AND THE REASON I SAY WE, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE PICKED THAT EXACT SPEC YET, BECAUSE THERE'S OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT ABILITIES WITH DIFFERENT TYPES OF SPECS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE THERE. BUT JUST WITH OUR, GENERALLY WITH OUR PROPERTY MANAGEMENT AND OPERATING THE, THE CENTER, IF A LIGHTS GETS BROKEN OR SOMETHING, WE'RE GOING TO REPLACE THAT PRETTY SOON BECAUSE IT.

MAYBE JUST FOR, I MEAN, BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS KIND OF PUT YOU IN A SPOT TO, FOR THE NEXT PRESENTATION, MAYBE JUST INCLUDE A PICTURE OF KIND OF A REPRESENTATION OF WHAT THEY EXPECT THAT TO LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? MAYBE AT NIGHT. SO THAT THAT WAY PEOPLE CAN SEE IF I'M ASSUMING IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A SPOTLIGHT, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO BE MORE JUST AMBIANCE. SO OKAY.

THE WALL MURALS AND ART SCULPTURES. MY ONLY COMMENT ON THAT WAS, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S INTERESTING IN TERMS OF LOCATIONS, BUT AND I'D SAY THIS GENERALLY ABOUT ANYTHING I GUESS IT'S LOCATION FIVE, WHICHEVER ONE THAT FRONTS HIGHWAY 114. THAT'S ONE THAT'S GOING TO BE A SUPER SENSITIVE ONE.

[00:25:01]

ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE ONE ON BUILDING 500? YEAH.

OKAY. YEAH. SO THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW, IT COULD BE A TOUGHER ONE.

MAYBE NOT FOR US, BUT CERTAINLY FOR COUNCIL, THAT'S THE.

GENERALLY ANY KIND OF SIGN, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE, YOU KNOW, THE MONUMENT SIGNS, THOSE ARE ALL MAKE SENSE, THEY'RE INTUITIVE, BUT JUST BEING CAREFUL OF THE VISIBILITY FROM 114 SO I THINK THAT'S ONE THAT WILL BE FOCUSED ON, I GUESS WE'LL SAY. ARE YOU OKAY WITH BUILDING 700? IT'S ORIENTED BACK TO PARKING. SO IT'S NOT. YEAH.

I MEAN, I MEAN, I GUESS ASSUMING IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF BLATANTLY.

YEAH. I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE MAYBE YOU COULD SEE IT IF YOU'RE GOING WESTBOUND AND KIND OF ROUNDING THE CORNER THERE BUT NOT DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT WAS AS BLATANT.

BUT YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S THE THING TO WATCH OUT FOR.

AND AGAIN, SOME OF THIS IS WHETHER IT'S OUR OPINION OR NOT. WE'RE TRYING TO PREPARE YOU FOR WHAT YOU MIGHT HEAR AT COUNCIL. YEAH, I APPRECIATE THAT. I MEAN, OUR THOUGHT ON THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT KIND OF DRAWS YOU FROM OFFICE PARKING INTO THAT PUBLIC AREA SPACE.

IT'S ALSO THE BACK OF HOUSE FOR THAT JEWEL BOX BUILDING RIGHT THERE.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THAT AS ESTHETICALLY PLEASING AS POSSIBLE.

AND MAYBE THAT MAYBE, I MEAN, MAYBE THE THOUGHT THERE AGAIN, MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS A LITTLE MORE MILD.

CERTAINLY, AND I THINK YOU KIND OF HEARD SOME OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT HERE NON-COMMERCIAL MORE JUST NON-COMMERCIAL. I GUESS I'M NOT GOOD AT DESCRIBING THESE THINGS, BUT. YOU KNOW, ANOTHER COMMENT ON THAT.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE ONES AROUND HERE, ONES THAT INVOLVE AS WE TALKED ABOUT WORK SESSION, LIKE LOCAL TOPICS OR THINGS, THEMES. SOUTHLAKE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S BLATANT PICTURES OF DRAGONS ON SOME OF THESE THINGS SUBTLY. YOU KNOW, IT'S OUR HIGH SCHOOL MASCOT.

GOOD OR BAD TO DO THAT? GOOD, GOOD, GOOD. I MEAN, THE MORE LOCAL AND AUTHENTIC, THE BETTER VERSUS JUST CORPORATE AND GENERIC AND THIRD PARTY AND, YOU KNOW, BLAND. THAT SEEMS TO BE GENERALLY THE THEMES THAT COUNCIL KIND OF LOOKS FOR IN THESE.

OKAY. GO AHEAD, GO AHEAD. WELL, ANOTHER THING I THOUGHT OF THAT COULD POTENTIALLY ARISE WITH THE MURAL AND MESSAGING AND EVERYTHING THAT HAD REALLY GOOD INTENT, BUT THEN IT SUDDENLY BECOMES CONTROVERSIAL WITH THE COMMUNITY.

AND SO IF SOMETHING WERE TO BECOME CONTROVERSIAL, WHAT WOULD BE THE REACTION TO THAT OR MECHANISM MAYBE TO, TO ADDRESS IT? MAYBE, MAYBE KIND OF BUILDING ON THAT REAL QUICK, I GUESS.

WILL YOU GUYS, DO YOU GUYS THINK YOU'LL HAVE AN IDEA WHEN YOU BRING THIS FORWARD, WHAT THE MURALS WILL LOOK LIKE? OR IS THAT MORE OF A TBD? AND I'D SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT THE ART SCULPTURES.

LIKE WHAT'S THE TIMING ANTICIPATED ON THAT BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO THINK THROUGH PROCESS.

LIKE THIS MURAL CONTENT ARE ACTUALLY KIND OF LIKE THESE.

IT'S PRETTY INNOCENT FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT THE PROCESS THAT WE WENT THROUGH, HOW WE ARRIVED AT FARM ANIMALS IS WE JUST BOUGHT THE FARM. AND SO WE WANT TO CONTINUE THAT THEME THERE.

AND THEN ALSO JUST, AS FAR AS OUR PROCESS GOES, WE HAVEN'T SETTLED ON ANY ONE OF THESE YET IF WE NEED TO. IT SOUNDS LIKE WE GOT TO GO TO ART COUNCIL, RIGHT? WELL, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE EITHER PART OF HOW Y'ALL WANT TO PROPOSE IT OR WHERE THE SIGN BOARD'S RECOMMENDATION MIGHT GO ON, WHAT ITEMS WOULD POTENTIALLY BE PERMITTED ADMINISTRATIVELY.

WHAT ITEMS MIGHT BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR ART COUNCIL RECOMMENDATION AND OR SIGN BOARD INVOLVEMENT AT.

YEAH, I MEAN, IN A LOT OF STAGES, LIKE IF YOU DON'T HAVE THEM, WHEN YOU PRESENT THE PACKAGE, THEN THE OPTIONS ARE YOU'RE EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO COME BACK HERE WHEN YOU PUT THEM ALL THROUGH, OR YOU'LL, YOU'LL LIKELY THEY TYPICALLY GO THROUGH OUR ARTS COUNCIL WHICH HOPEFULLY CAN GET YOU PROMPT FEEDBACK AND OR STAFF.

AND I DON'T KNOW, DENNIS, I MEAN, YOU THINK COUNCIL IS GOING TO WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT REGARDLESS? I DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN BE THAT HANDS OFF ON SOMETHING.

I WOULD THINK AND IN SOME CASES MOST CERTAINLY, AND IT'S LEFT TO BE DETERMINED WHETHER THEY MIGHT PREFER TO SEE ALL OF THEM.

BUT AT THIS POINT DON'T, DON'T KNOW. SO THAT THAT'S WHERE I'M TRYING TO GO IS YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY TO BAKE THAT CAKE.

I WAS ON, I WAS ONLY HESITATING OR HEDGING JUST A LITTLE BIT.

[00:30:02]

WE CAN DO THAT AND PRESENT THAT NO PROBLEM IN A TIMELY MANNER.

IF YOU DO THAT, AND EVEN IF IT'S JUST SUBJECT TO ADDITIONALLY THE ARTS COUNCIL FEEDBACK, BECAUSE THIS PROCESS TAKES A LITTLE WHILE IN TERMS OF GETTING YOU TO COUNCIL. SO MAYBE WE COULD EVEN TAKE A LOOK AT IT, OPINE SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH ARTS COUNCIL.

AND THEN AS LONG AS IT ENDS UP AT COUNCIL WHERE IT HAS THEIR REVIEW AND OUR REVIEW, THEN THEY'LL HAVE WHAT THEY NEED AND CAN KIND OF KEEP YOU MOVING ALONG.

YEAH, I WAS ONLY JUST THINKING THROUGH SOME OF THESE BUILDINGS DON'T HAVE 100% OF THE TENANTS FILLED YET.

AND SOMETIMES THEY DO LIKE TO LOOK AT THAT MURAL BEFORE THEY SELECT THEIR SPACE.

BUT AS FAR AS LIKE A TRADEMARK INTERNAL PROCESS, EASY.

WE CAN, WE CAN FOR SURE NAIL DOWN A COUPLE DIFFERENT MURALS THAT WE WANT TO BRING FORWARD.

YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU REALLY HAVE TWO PIECES OF WORK HERE.

YOU'VE GOT THE ART PACKAGE, AND YOU'VE GOT THE GRAPHICS PACKAGE, AND THE GRAPHICS PACKAGE IS TIED IN WITH THE SIGNS AND WHATNOT, AND YOU NEED GRAPHICS PACKAGE AND THE SIGN CONTROL, AND YOU NEED THAT RATHER SOON SO THAT YOU CAN DO LEASES.

BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS THEY'RE TRYING TO CONTROL WHAT TENANTS DEMAND AND CAN DEMAND IN THEIR LEASES.

AND THEY DON'T HAVE THAT TOOL RIGHT NOW. BUT AS SOON AS THE CITY CAN APPROVE THE SIGN COMPONENT, THE GRAPHICS COMPONENT THAT ARE COMMERCIAL COMPONENTS SO THAT THEY CAN DO THEIR LEASES, AND WE CAN SORT OF SEPARATE THE GRAPHICS COMPONENT FROM ALL OF THE ARTISTIC COMPONENTS, WHICH THE TENANTS WON'T HAVE A SAY IN LIEUTENANT COMPONENTS, THE CITY AND THE, AND OUR APPLICANT WOULD HAVE THE SAY, I THINK YOU'VE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB.

I THINK THIS IS A WONDERFUL PACKAGE. VERY THOROUGH, VERY ARTFUL.

I PARTICULARLY LIKE THE AGRARIAN APPROACH, YOU KNOW, TO TIE IT WITH SHIPPERS, FARMS, WITH THE ANIMALS AND WHATNOT.

IT'S VERY NON-GRAPHIC, BUT I WONDER IF IT MIGHT BE EASIER FROM AN APPROVAL STANDPOINT TO HAVE A GRAPHICS PACKAGE AND AN ART PACKAGE SO THAT WE'RE NOT TRYING TO DO TOO MUCH WITH ONE DOCUMENT.

WELL, YOU GUYS. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S. YEAH.

I MEAN, MAYBE. THAT'S SOMETHING ANY. STAFF CAN KIND OF GIVE YOU SOME GUIDANCE ON IN TERMS OF THE BEST WAY TO BREAK THAT APART TO GET YOU THE QUICKEST APPROVAL ON SOME OF THE MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD ITEMS AND ITEMS THAT, YOU KNOW, MORE SUBJECTIVE, LIKE ART AND WHICH I'D SAY THEORETICALLY, I WOULD ASSUME UP HERE. I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S SUPPORT FOR, BUT THEN THE DEVIL IS ALWAYS IN THE DETAILS.

YEAH. I MEAN, THESE DAYS, HAVING THESE ARTISTIC MOMENTS AND WHATNOT, THEY BECOME PHOTOGRAPH SPOTS FOR PEOPLE OF ALL AGES TO GET IT HITS SOCIAL MEDIA. AND THEN THIS ADVERTISEMENT FOR NOT ONLY THE DEVELOPMENT BUT FOR OUR CITY.

AND SO WE WANT AND SHOULD WANT AS MANY OF THOSE PHOTOGRAPHIC SPOTS THAT ARE UNIQUE TO THIS DEVELOPMENT AND TO SOUTHLAKE AS WE CAN GET. THAT'S MY OPINION.

YEAH. AND I THINK IF THEY'RE IN GOOD TASTE, THEN THERE SHOULD BE.

AND I CAN IMAGINE IT WOULD BE ANY, ANY, ANY KICKBACK ON THAT.

YEAH. AND WE'RE ALIGNED WITH YOU ON THAT BECAUSE WE ALSO DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING CONTROVERSIAL FOR ANY OF OUR TENANTS EITHER. WE WANT SOMETHING INNOCENT, NEFARIOUS. THAT'S A APPLIES TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE TO GET AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE TO COME TO THE CENTER.

SO, I APPRECIATE THE COMPLIMENT AS WELL. I CAN'T TAKE CREDIT FOR ANY OF IT, THAT TERRY MONTESI IS REALLY GOOD AT THIS STUFF.

AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE A ACTUALLY DEVELOPMENT ANALYST THAT THESE ARE HER DRAWINGS ACTUALLY.

AND SO, SHE'S VERY EXCITED TO HOPEFULLY CONTRIBUTE TO SOME OF THESE MURALS.

WELL, I MEAN, DENNIS, FROM A PROCESSING STANDPOINT, IS IT TOO CUMBERSOME TO HAVE KIND OF TWO APPLICATIONS GOING ON THE SIGN FRONT HERE? I DON'T THINK SO. AND I MEAN, IF THE BOARD FEELS LIKE THAT'S EASIER TO BUILD THEIR SIGN PACKAGE FROM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE DEALING WITH A, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEIR COMMERCIAL SIGN PACKAGE IS AND THEN LOOKING AT THEIR GRAPHIC PACKAGE AND THEN THEIR ARTISTIC, ARTISTIC PACKAGE, AND THEN KIND OF LOOKING AT THEM AS STACKING AMENDMENTS TO ONE ANOTHER AND TAKE THEM KIND OF A PIECE AT A TIME.

SO, IT COULD BE KIND OF A ONE PRIMARY CASE THAT HAS AMENDMENTS MADE TO IT.

BUT WHEN WE'RE REVIEWING THE INITIAL ONE, WE ALL KNOW THERE WILL BE AMENDMENTS COMING.

AND IT'S JUST AS THEY GET REFINED. CORRECT. AND, YOU KNOW, IF IT MAKES IT, LIKE I SAID, MANAGE THE

[00:35:02]

AND THAT'S HOW Y'ALL WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT. I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE.

IT'S NOT TO BE SAID THAT SOME OF THE OTHER ONES WE JUST HAVEN'T COMBINED THEM.

AND THEN TAKEN WHAT TIME IS NEEDED TO LOOK AT EACH ONE AND THEN MOVE IT ALL TOGETHER, BUT.

YEAH. AND IT COULD IT, I THINK THIS IS A GOOD, GOOD TIME TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AS TO WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE MOST MANAGEABLE FROM A SIGNIFICANT STANDPOINT.

LIKE YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE TO OFFER TO YOUR LEASES AS THEY COME UP AND CAPTURING THAT FIRST AND THEN PUTTING TOGETHER YOUR GRAPHICS PACKAGE AND YOUR ARTISTIC. BEING SEQUENTIAL. LIKE IF WE WANT TO COVER THE SIGN PACKAGE SPECIFICALLY FIRST, BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S MORE CRITICAL PATH TO YOUR POINT.

AND THEN THE ARTISTIC MURAL PACKAGE, WE CAN COME BACK IN 4 OR 5 MONTHS OR WHENEVER WE'RE SETTLED ON THIS TO COME BACK, WE'RE FINE WITH THEM NOT BEING AT THE SAME TIME. TOTALLY FINE WITH THAT.

HOW. AND DENNIS, THAT WOULD I MEAN, I THINK WE COULD EVEN DO IT AS LIKE JUST AN AMENDMENT.

SO, IT'S LIKE THERE'S A MASTER SIGN PLAN JUST AMENDING IT.

AND WE ALL HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING GOING IN THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE COMING AT US.

AND I'D ALMOST SAY IN THAT INITIAL APPLICATION.

TO THE EXTENT YOU HAVE ANY OF THIS WORKED OUT, FEEL FREE TO INCLUDE THAT.

IT DOESN'T ONLY HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, LATER. I MEAN, IF THERE'S PARTS OF IT YOU HAVE WORKED OUT GREAT.

IF THERE'S PARTS YOU'RE STILL WORKING ON THAT ARTS COUNCIL NEEDS TO WEIGH IN ON.

RIGHT, I'M THAT'S WHAT I'M SUGGESTING. BECAUSE WHETHER OR NOT THEY PICK COWS OR PIGS OR GRAPHICS, IT'S THE TENANT'S NOT GOING TO HAVE A SAY IN THAT.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THAT ARTS COMMITTEE IS GOING TO HAVE AND WHATNOT, BUT GETTING THIS GRAPHICS PACKAGE UNDER CONTROL SO THAT THEY CAN CONTROL THE DESIRES OF THE TENANTS. OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL ALL WANT SIGNS THAT ARE 70 FOOT TALL AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY DON'T WANT THAT. WE DON'T WANT THAT.

SO, THIS GIVES THEM THE TOOL TO WHERE THEY CAN FINISH THEIR LEASING AND, AND KEEP IT, YOU KNOW, UNDER CONTROL. OKAY. SO. WE'LL HAVE A. SO, I LIKE THE IDEA, BUT I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SHORT TERM, GETTING EVERYTHING SET UP. AND THEN THE LONG TERM, BECAUSE THIS MASTER SIGN PLAN IS GOING TO CONTROL LONG TERM, RIGHT? AND SO PROCEDURALLY, DID I HEAR YOU SAY THAT IT WOULD COME IN TWO PARTS INITIALLY.

BUT THE SIGN PLAN, THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTALS, THE WAY THAT THE ARTISTIC COMPONENT WOULD BE INCORPORATED AS AN AMENDMENT.

SO, IT WOULD STILL BE ONE SIGN PLAN COLLECTIVELY.

THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. OKAY. AND WITH THAT, SO I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT IT'S GOING TO BE CUTE PIGS AND WHATEVER.

IT'S THAT LONG TERM CONCERN ABOUT THE MURALS THAT, YOU KNOW, WOULD CHANGE HANDS AND PEOPLE GO AND ALL THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE LONG-TERM GUARD? I THINK, I MEAN, I THINK WE HAVE THAT KIND OF SCREWED DOWN, RIGHT DENNIS, BECAUSE THEY WILL SELL THIS PROBABLY THE SECOND IT GETS A CFO.

IT'S GOOD FOR YOU GUYS. AND THE NEXT OWNER I MEAN, I THINK WE HAVE ASSURANCES IF THEY EVER GO TO MODIFY THE MURAL, THEN THAT'S KIND OF A VARIANCE TO THE MASTER SIGN PLAN AND THEY HAVE TO COME BACK, RIGHT? YEAH. I WOULD SAY YES. I MEAN, ANYTHING THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY BROUGHT FORWARD AS A SPECIFIC DESIGN SCHEME, IF IT WERE SIGNIFICANTLY ALTERED, WE WOULD LIKELY, UNLESS THERE'S SOME OTHER PROVISION WRITTEN INTO THE ORDINANCE OR THE MASTER SIGN PLAN AND APPROVAL THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGES.

SUCH THING, IF THERE WAS ANYTHING SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGED FROM WHAT WAS PRESENTED TO, YOU KNOW, THE FINAL APPROVING BODY ON THAT, WE WOULD TYPICALLY BE IN ALMOST ALL CASES, I CAN'T THINK OF NONE.

WE WOULD TAKE THE MORE CONSERVATIVE APPROACH FROM OUR SIDE AND LET THE APPROVING BOARDS SEE THE NEW PRODUCT, SO. COMMISSIONER DRISCOLL. SO, THIS IS KIND OF MY TAKE ON IT.

SO Y'ALL MIGHT DISAGREE, BUT ARTWORK IS GREAT, BUT I THINK LESS VERBIAGE WOULD BE BETTER AND MORE TIMELESS AND LEAVE LESS ROOM FOR MAYBE POLITICAL BACKLASH OR, YOU KNOW. DOES ANYBODY TO HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT? I THOUGHT, WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT IF THERE HAS TO BE SPECIAL APPROVAL FOR WORDS AND NOT PICTURES OR WHATEVER.

BUT THEN I STARTED THINKING YOU COULD PROBABLY EVEN HAVE PICTURES WITHOUT WORDS, THAT COULD BE JUST AS CONTROVERSIAL. SO, I DON'T KNOW, THERE'S A MAGIC BULLET, BUT I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

I THINK THE WAY THIS IS DRAWN UP. WE'LL GET A BITE AT THE APPLE.

WE'LL GET TO LOOK AT IT, GET TO OPINE. IT'LL GET WHATEVER GETS APPROVED, GETS APPROVED.

IF IT GETS CHANGED, WE GET ANOTHER BITE AT THE APPLE.

[00:40:01]

AND AT THIS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A SLIDE YOU GUYS WANT TO BRING UP, BUT I'M LOOKING AT THE, MY PRESENTATION HANDOUT HERE, PAGE 39. THERE'S PRIMARY SIGNAGE, SECONDARY SIGNAGE, OPTIONAL SIGNAGE.

AND THEN JUST LETTER HEIGHT. ANY OF THIS, GIVE ANYBODY ANY FEEDBACK ON ANY OF THIS, ANYTHING? I PERSONALLY I MEAN, I THINK IT'S PART OF THE ARCHITECTURE AND IT'S DISTINCTLY GOING TO SET THE DESIGN THEME OF A LOT OF THESE BUILDINGS.

SO, WHAT THEY'VE SHOWN HERE IS, I THINK IS, IS, IS VERY ARTISTIC.

AND, AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO TRY TO MICROMANAGE TOO MUCH OF THIS BECAUSE THEN WE'RE GOING TO TAKE AWAY THEIR ABILITY TO DELIVER THE TOP FLIGHT DEVELOPMENT THAT WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE CAPABLE OF DELIVERING.

SO, I'M MORE FLEXIBLE, IN MY OPINION, SHOULD BE WE SHOULD BE MORE FLEXIBLE, ESPECIALLY ON THESE BLADE SIGNS AND HANGING SIGNS.

AND THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT WILL BE DISTINGUISHING TO THE DEVELOPMENT.

I'M IN FAVOR OF THEM DOING THOSE THINGS. OKAY.

SAME. YEAH, I DIDN'T I MEAN, LOOK, COUNCIL MAY HAVE SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT.

BUT I MEAN, I THINK YOU'RE IN THE STRIKE ZONE THERE.

SO, IN TERMS OF LIKE WHAT YOU WOULD, I THINK THE GUTS OF WHAT YOU WOULD PUT FORWARD IN YOUR INITIAL MASTER SIGN PLAN APPLICATION AND SOME OF THE ART AND OR MURALS THAT YOU MAYBE HAVE BAKED. I WOULD INCLUDE THAT.

AND THEN JUST MAYBE YOU CAN EVEN NOTE WITHIN THAT PACKAGE KIND OF COMING SOON, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO THESE ARE THE OTHER AREAS, JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO BRING UP AMENDMENTS TO THE MASTER SIGN PLAN AS WE FURTHER BAKE THE CAKE.

BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S ALL THE FEEDBACK I HAD.

I KIND OF STATED IT ALREADY. JUST BE CAREFUL WITH ANYTHING.

AND I WOULD INCLUDE THESE SIGNAGE SIZES, JUST ANYTHING THAT, ANYTHING THAT FRONTS HIGHWAY 114 IS ALWAYS SENSITIVE.

ANY THE MURAL STUFF MORE LOCAL. IT CAN BE, YOU KNOW, THE BETTER.

TALKED ABOUT THE ART COUNCIL. AND JUST KNOW AGAIN, WE'LL, COME BACK AND WE'LL REVIEW IT ONCE YOU HAVE AN APPLICATION.

AND THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO DO OUR BEST TO GIVE IT TO YOU NOW. ANYTHING ELSE FOR? I'LL JUST POINT OUT WE'RE MINUS TWO MEMBERS. SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE ENCOMPASSING ALL FEEDBACK.

ONE OF THOSE MEMBERS COUNTS IS LIKE 4 OR 5 MEMBERS, SO.

YEAH, I KNOW, BUT AGAIN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE A SEVEN ZERO VOTE.

YOU JUST HAVE TO GET AT LEAST FOUR VOTES. SO, YOU KNOW, THESE SIGN PACKAGES ARE ALWAYS SUBJECTIVE.

BUT NO, LOOK, IN GENERAL IT LOOKS VERY WELL DONE.

YOU GUYS HAVE A GREAT REPUTATION IN TERMS OF KIND OF HOW YOU, YOU KNOW, PLACE MAKE ON THESE THINGS.

SO, I THINK IT'S VERY MUCH A GLASS HALF FULL AND I'M JUST SEEING THE DETAILS.

SO, WHAT ELSE CAN WE HELP YOU WITH? THAT, THAT IT, WHEN DO WE THINK, WHEN DO YOU THINK WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN? ANY IDEA? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I THINK. WE DID GET SOME, WE GOT SOME FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT TO INCORPORATE LAST WEEK.

I'M HOPEFUL I WOULD LOVE TO GET THIS IN NEXT MONTH AND GET IT MOVING.

THINGS SLOW DOWN A LITTLE BIT AROUND THE HOLIDAYS. JUST BE AWARE.

SO, I'LL PUSH TO GET IT IN. SO OKAY, WELL. NO, THANKS FOR I MEAN, ALSO, I GUESS, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING IT FORWARD FOR COMMENT BECAUSE WE DON'T, WE DON'T GET A LOT OF THOSE.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE BRING IT IN AND IN THEIR MINDS, IT'S FULLY BAKED AND, YOU KNOW, AND THEN WE GET INTO A BIG.

SO, WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN JUST TO HEAR SOME SENSITIVE POINTS.

WE APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK. AND GOOD LUCK AND DEFINITELY CHEERING FOR THIS ONE.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'LL BE A GREAT ONE. SO, THANK YOU.

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. WELL WITH THAT SINCE THIS WAS JUST A WORK SESSION ITEM ONLY THERE'S NO VOTES ON THIS ONE.

SO, I THINK I CAN GO AHEAD AND GAVEL OUT THE MEETING HERE. THANK YOU EVERYBODY.

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.